Opel Commodore GS/E 3,0 24V

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Anders_Karlsson
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:13 am
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Firmware Version: 66
Location: Sweden

Opel Commodore GS/E 3,0 24V

Post by Anders_Karlsson »

Got my engine started with DTA S80pro today, no problems at all!

Crappy video:


Runs very rich, but engine fired up on the first try. Maybe 5 sec on starter, then some signs of life and the next moment it fired on all cylinders.

Setup:

Stock C30SE engine, balanced crank, rods and pistons. Billet flywheel.
Matchported intake to cyl head, minor job done with valve seats.

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Bosch 0 280 155 830 injectors, 347 cc/min @ 3 bar.
Using the stock cable loom with some mods to suit the DTA.
Innovate LC1 wideband lambda, only connected to a gauge for the moment.

Some pics of the car, i drive it mostly on trackdays and some RS-like events. No real competition, just for fun!
Car had been taken off the road some 20 years ago, i started restoration in 2009.

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Frontbrakes upgraded last winter.

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Suspension is almost stock, adjustable coilovers in front and some PU-bushings.
Hard old shockabsorbers in rear with cut springs, PU-bushings.

Interior is all leather, previous owner spend a lot of money almost 20 years ago.
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Drivers seat had to be replaced for inspired driving.
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Future plans is to drive it as much as possible, maybe a new paintjob sometime.
stevieturbo
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: Opel Commodore GS/E 3,0 24V

Post by stevieturbo »

Cool, and good luck with it !
Anders_Karlsson
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:13 am
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Firmware Version: 66
Location: Sweden

Re: Opel Commodore GS/E 3,0 24V

Post by Anders_Karlsson »

Thanks!

I have some in-car videos from this summer, maybe not interesting because engine runs with stock Motronic ECU? ;)



Anders_Karlsson
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:13 am
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Firmware Version: 66
Location: Sweden

Re: Opel Commodore GS/E 3,0 24V

Post by Anders_Karlsson »

Some progress made, but not much.

Fitted large paper air filter.

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Also booked time for tuning on rolling road. Hope the old engine gives more than stock 204 hp/270 Nm @ crank.

Last time this engine was on rolling road it made 200 hp/292 Nm @ wheels with a dodgy Megasquirt.
Older car but engine/gearbox is the same spec.

Anders_Karlsson
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:13 am
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Firmware Version: 66
Location: Sweden

Re: Opel Commodore GS/E 3,0 24V

Post by Anders_Karlsson »

Now its springtime in Sweden (almost, still below zero celsius at night).

Been to the garage and tried to get some sort of idle.
Very tricky to get lambda 1 at idle, maybe i have some settings wrong.
Tried the lambda history and applied the changes but then it got so lean the engine stalled.
Tried closed loop lambda also, that increased the fuel very much=black smoke and engine stalled.
Is there some way i can upload my map?
Here is a screenshot of myfuel and timing maps.

Image

Nothing exotic with the engine, N/A straight six with 347 cc injectors and single TB.
Innovate LC-1 lambda that is calibrated in free air.
stevieturbo
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: Opel Commodore GS/E 3,0 24V

Post by stevieturbo »

I would not be running 0 deg of timing at idle. 10-15 would be better.

As for close loop making it too rich. It can only make it as rich as you allow it. You must have a huge % up/down in the lambda settings.

IMO, set the mixture open loop, make very small changes and you should be able to get it working good.

Do you have to target 14.7:1 for emissions test purposes ? Or is there a reason you must target this ?

The whole Lambda 1 thing is purely for emissions for cars with catalytic convertors, as this is the cleanest burn. It isnt the best or most efficient, just the cleanest in emissions terms
katana
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:08 pm
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 29

Re: Opel Commodore GS/E 3,0 24V

Post by katana »

@ Stevieturbo - Eye check time M8 - its 8 deg at idle :)

830's are big injectors for around that level of power - would have thought 200 - 250cc would be more than adequate? How did you arrive at the numbers in the map? I'd try taking 10% out of the whole idle - midrange fuel map and get a feel for improvement or not?
Anders_Karlsson
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:13 am
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Firmware Version: 66
Location: Sweden

Re: Opel Commodore GS/E 3,0 24V

Post by Anders_Karlsson »

14,7:1 is for emission test yes, so the rest of the map can be as efficient as possible.
MOT-checks here in Sweden includes emission test at idle and 2500 rpm with car standing still.
Lambda 0,97-1,03 is ok, so i can go a bit leaner if i want to.
The settings for closed loop is max 5% increase and 5% decrease, is that too much? Values goes to 900 in the increase box...

With engine warm it idles at around 750 rpm and 35-40 kpa so advance is 10-11 degrees. Checked with timing light and it looks ok.

Injectors are a bit big i admit, but they where almost new and very cheap. Stock injectors are 0 280 150 413. They give 196 cc/min @ 3 bar wich gives just enough to produce 204 hp if my math is correct. That would be at 95 % dutycycle too.
As for the fuel map i actually started the engine with much higher values, have been fiddling with it a bit since then so the numbers shown are lower now.
I will try to scale off 10% as suggested.
stevieturbo
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: Opel Commodore GS/E 3,0 24V

Post by stevieturbo »

The injectors arent big in the overall scheme of things though, certainly not so big they should pose a problem.

I'm shocked they make such old cars try and hit that target. In the UK a car of that age would just have to be sub 4.5% CO and sub 1200ppm HCC which is very very easy to pass.

Also, a slightly higher idle often makes emissions easier. ie try 900rpm. On that same note, allowing more air into the engine can help too. ie open the throttle to achieve the higher idle, dont just increase timing.

Also....be careful if your using a wideband to try and hit actual lambda targets. A wideband doesnt measure lambda as such. A wideband can be skewed by air leaks etc SO you cant assume that 14.7:1 as displayed on a wideband, is actually lambda 1 as would be seen on a gas analyser.

If the emissions criteria are strict, you really need to be testing using a proper gas analyser.
Anders_Karlsson
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:13 am
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Firmware Version: 66
Location: Sweden

Re: Opel Commodore GS/E 3,0 24V

Post by Anders_Karlsson »

The engine is from a -93 Senator so emission tests are made for that engine. With the old 12 valve iron engine its easier, max 4,5% CO and thats it.

I will try raising the idle, should not be a problem at MOT because the old tacho in the dash is off by almost 1000 rpm at some points... :roll:
When it shows 2500 the actual rpm is 3000 in DTASwin.

I will keep the lambda issues in mind, thanks for all the help guys!
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