BMW M3

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ignitionautosport
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:30 am
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Location: New Zealand
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Re: BMW M3

Post by ignitionautosport »

This side of the world it is common to use a GM1.05Bar MAP sensor, that way you get correctin if your intake happens to read pressure from the induction system design (ie open to front of the car). TPS with MAP correction is ideal as you get the repsonse of the TPS map, but it corrects for slight variances in barometric/intake pressure due to different weather conditions or altitude changes.
| '94 GSR Lancer | '96 Toyota Carib 20V | '83 Toyota Starlet | www.ignitionautosport.co.nz |
xworks
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:38 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro

Re: BMW M3

Post by xworks »

Was a little embarrassed when I logged back in today to make
a post to this thread and realised that I hadn't replied to thank
you for the info :oops: Thank you for the heads up.

I eventually tracked down a map sensor after first trying to buy
a Bosch 0261 230 004 as advised in the DTA wiring diagrams,
unfortunately this sensor seems to be no longer available from
Bosch, but, it is superseded by 0261 230 037..........

Image

and after checking it's spec's on the Bosch website it reads from 0.2 > 1.05bar,
so I bought one.

I'm about half way through wiring up the loom at the moment and have hit
another small stumbling block that maybe someone can help with?
I'm running shielded wire to both the coil and the crank sensor and am
wondering where people ground their shield wire? I've been following the DTA
wiring diagrams for the S40 so far and have used ecu pin 28 to ground
both crank and map sensors, and pin 29 to ground TPS, water and air temp sensors. Am now wondering if I should have grouped these all together on one
pin and left the other free for grounding the shield wires?

Below is a scan of the wiring diagram I drew up to try and help lay the wires in............

http://www.xworksmotorsport.com/Dta%20S ... iagram.png

(it's a little large as it was drawn out on A1 size paper, so you may have to save it
to your own pc and use your computer's zoom in/out to view it properly)

Again, any help appreciated.

Cheers.
Brian.
welshpug
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:53 am
ECU Model: S40 Pro

Re: BMW M3

Post by welshpug »

looks a great project, is it a modified engine? just wondering why you went for aftermarket :) (started reading your epic thread BTW, got to the end of the first page so far!! )

Idle valve arrangement looks interesting, have you any further pics of it? just wondering where it feeds the air to after the ICV, if possible I'd like to incorporate something like that to my throttle bodies too :D

I don't know if you'd be able to get a steady enough reading for a MAP to be used for load sensing due to the 4 itb and short tracts, though if they have a supplementary air feed rail that may be somewhere you could try and see what it's like.
xworks
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:38 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro

Re: BMW M3

Post by xworks »

welshpug wrote: is it a modified engine? just wondering why you went for aftermarket :)
Yeah the engine has been changed enough from the standard unit that I had
to make the plunge for either a piggy back type unit or full aftermarket
Ecu. Figured if I was going to get something might as well go the whole hog.

The induction part of the engine is probably the biggest difference. Dumping the
standard air box and airflow meter to replace it with the Group A/ DTM style
airbox meant I have to use either a map sensor or throttle position sensor
to now measure engine load.
Theres a few other bits and pieces changed too, went with custom pistons to bump up the compression a little, larger inlet and exhaust valves, different cams,
larger throttle bodies, larger exhaust manifold primaries and the inlet ports have
been opened up a good bit.
Bit of luck should see a little rise in the engines output, but, if the truth be known
all I'm really looking forward too is the change in induction sound the airbox
will hopefully bring. I just love the sound of the S14 engine fitted with an airbox......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD4Axygp ... re=related
welshpug wrote: (started reading your epic thread BTW, got to the end of the first page so far!! )
Thread goes on and on a bit allright, thankfully it's nearing the end now if I can
just get this engine to make some noise.
welshpug wrote:Idle valve arrangement looks interesting, have you any further pics of it? just wondering where it feeds the air to after the ICV, if possible I'd like to incorporate something like that to my throttle bodies too :D
Will take and stick up a few pic's tomorrow evening to try and shed a little light.
welshpug wrote:I don't know if you'd be able to get a steady enough reading for a MAP to be used for load sensing due to the 4 itb and short tracts, though if they have a supplementary air feed rail that may be somewhere you could try and see what it's like.
They have indeed got a common supplementary air feed rail, but instead of tapping into this I was starting to think I might tap into the little rubber hose
that feeds this rail from the Icv. This hose already comes tapped as standard
with a little 90 degree tee off for a vacuum feed for the fuel pressure regulator.
So I'm considering just changing this 90 degree fitting to a tee fitting and using
the extra opening to run a small hose to the map sensor.
A friend over on an M3 forum seems to have had success this way using a little
carburettor jet in the line to act as a pulse damper.

Will try and get a few pic's up tomorrow to make it a little easier to visualise.
welshpug
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:53 am
ECU Model: S40 Pro

Re: BMW M3

Post by welshpug »

brilliant, I guess if BMW deemed the vacuum stable enough for the FPR then it should be good for the MAP, my pug's with the ECU mounted map sensors have an inline damper pot :)
xworks
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:38 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro

Re: BMW M3

Post by xworks »

Got a few pic's of the idle control setup.

Both throttle body pair's have a cast in supplementary air feed rail
as shown below......

Image

which drops air in the engine side of the butterfly (probably wouldn't be of much
use the other side of it :D )..........

Image

sandwiched in between these two rails is this little tee fitting which allows
air to be piped up to the rails. The two red arrows are the outlets to the throttle
body rails, and the dark and light blue arrows are the two inlet ports
giving two routes for idle air to be fed to the throttle bodies..........

Image

the light blue inlet port is a direct feed from the idle control valve, air comes
up from the idle control valve enters this port and flow directly out into the
throttle bodies

Image

Image

Image

(this is the pipe I'm thinking of grabbing a signal for the map sensor off, you
can see where it's already "tapped" for the fuel pressure regulator signal.)

Image

The other port on that tee fitting shown earlier (dark blue arrow) has a
restrictor on it and you can screw this in or out to open up or close off
this route in for air.......

Image

reason being this port is fed by a pipe which is open to atmosphere and
bypasses the idle control valve.......

Image

My best guess is the main bulk of air needed for idle enters through the idle
control valve and then the second route can be adjusted to bleed a little air in
bypassing the idle control valve to fine tune the idle.

Would be interested in seeing any pic's you have of them little "damper pot's" on
your vacuum line to the map sensor?

Also, would still like to hear from anybody regarding the grounding of shielded
wires??
welshpug
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:53 am
ECU Model: S40 Pro

Re: BMW M3

Post by welshpug »

awesome pics, I'll see if I have one of the map damper pots.
welshpug
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:53 am
ECU Model: S40 Pro

Re: BMW M3

Post by welshpug »

sorry for the delay, I was sure I had a picture but couldn't find it and just came across one having a clear up.

Image

this particular one is from a citroen BX gti (the late motronic equipped 8 valve, pretty rare cars!)

many others are similar though don't have a screw to secure them, they just dangle usually !

the one on my 205 (from a 1.9 8 valve ZX volcane) is part number 1957 46 and is listed at £10.10 on servicebox, that's a peugeot+citroen part number :)
xworks
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:38 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro

Re: BMW M3

Post by xworks »

Thanks for the picture and more importantly the part number, much appreciated!
Will track one down once things get back to normal after christmas.
Planning to make it over to the Autosport show in January and maybe pick up
some tips on getting a stable map signal with independent throttle bodies.
xworks
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:38 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro

Re: BMW M3

Post by xworks »

Managed to get a little time spent on the car again after the christmas
detox and have finally finished and installed the engine loom.
Next step was to try and power up and see would the Ecu and laptop
play nice with each other.

I bought the S40 Ecu a few years ago from somebody who owned but
never used it so I was fairly sure the firmware was going to be
an old version on it and one of the first things I wanted to do when powered
up was to reflash the Ecu with the latest version of Dta's firmware.

For this task Jon K's thread (linked below) proved very helpful.......
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8

Downloaded the DtaSwin software from Dta's website and installed it
on the laptop.
As my laptop doesn't have a serial port I had bought a USB to serial
adapter and comm's lead from Mefmotorsport.........
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=43
so the next step was to load the software disc for the USB to serial
adapter.

Once these two bits of software were loaded I could plug in the comm's lead
between the laptop and the Ecu and see if they'd talk to each other.
Unfortunately they weren't ready to play ball just yet.
Took a little while to figure out what was wrong but eventually I got there,
just needed to access "Device Manager" in windows and see what "comm port"
the comms lead was plugged into. It turned out to be "com 4" and once the
com port in the DTASwin programe was then also set to "com 4" they
started talking to each other.

Although they were communicating with each other the laptop was having a seriously
hard time of it, freezing every so often and very, very slow.
First thoughts were that the laptop being fairly old mustn't be up to the job.
But when all else fails it's usually a good time to read the manual again and
sure enough theres a section in the latest version of the manual about setting
Fi Fo speeds on the com's port and a little picture to show you what to set them
too. I haven't a clue what any of this stuff does but eventually I managed
to find the little window with the slider button's and set then up just like the
picture in the manual and sure enough everything started working perfect. :roll:

Probably worth mentioning at this stage is all I want to do is get the engine
ticking over if at all possible, check theres no leaks, all the sensors and stuff
works and then trailer it to someone who knows what they're at who can
hopefully map it for me. Not sure how realistic a goal this is but we'll give it
a try.

I had read in the manual that the Ecu comes supplied with a map loaded into
it which should start the majority of engines so this had filled me with a
little hope that maybe I could get it to run, but, unfortunately when I got a look
inside the Ecu it seems to be loaded with a map for a 1600cc Honda Civic
which is what the Ecu's previous owner had intended to install it on. :cry:

I had a look in the other map's saved in the DTASwin programme to see if
there's anything more suitable for my engine but it doesn't look like it.........
engine maps list screen shot.jpg
Anybody know how I might go about getting a map that would start this engine?
Last edited by xworks on Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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