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 Post subject: Big aircooled Suzuki map
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:35 am
Posts: 39
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Hi All.
I wonder if any of you can give me a heads up on a motorcycle map.
The bits I'm struggling with are cold start enrichment turns/fuel uplift, starting injector pulse, coil on time, injector dwell time and engine temp fueling.

The engine is a 4 cylinder 1170 with one nikki 771 (same as gsx1400) injector per cylinder, 2.2 ohm Dyna grey coils, 36mm TB's and 3 bar fuel pressure.

Any help or screen shots of these features would be muchly appreciated.

Cheers.

Skelly.


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 Post subject: Re: Big aircooled Suzuki map
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
Posts: 901
ECU Model: S100 Pro
try injector dead time of .7 to start with
Coil on of 3000
start pulse of 20

* But you can only look at the start fuelling map once you have the hot idle sorted

* Adjust your throttle stop to get 4 degrees ignition at idle

I ran an old oil cooled as my first DTA EFI engine :)

There is no reason why you can't just use the Zetec map adjusted for rpm of course. If you don't have one I recommend the knob box as this allows you to make massive instant map adjustments. It all starts from having a good crank trigger and in the right place. I just used oil temp as the coolant temperature.


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 Post subject: Re: Big aircooled Suzuki map
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:35 am
Posts: 39
ECU Model: S40 Pro
try injector dead time of .7 to start with
Coil on of 3000
start pulse of 20

Cheers Rob.
I actually used .8 dead time and adjusted slightly for voltage in the compensation table.
Coil on 3000, yep
Start pulse 20 yep.

It runs better than it has ever done before, sounds crisp and sharp when blipping the throttle.

* Adjust your throttle stop to get 4 degrees ignition at idle, Not entirely sure I'm understanding here Rob, I can have 4% throttle at tickover but 4 degrees of advance is a bit low, it seems to tickover quite happily at 12 to 18 degrees advance,
Am I missing a trick somewhere ?
I will go and try 4 degrees later on tonite and see what happens.

One thing I did notice was a lot of electrical interference from the Dyna coils which are notorious for this,
I may look into fitting some modern stick coils but not sure which type work best with an S40, any ideas ?

Cheers.
Skel.


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 Post subject: Re: Big aircooled Suzuki map
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
Posts: 901
ECU Model: S100 Pro
I'm a firm believer that the throttle closed in use setting should be 0% not 4, 5 % or whatever. If you run with 4 deg hot idle and the throttle open a little (but re set the closed and full positions to read 0 and 100%) the engine will be very sensitive to ignition timing changes at idle. Once you turn the idle control with ignition it will hold an idle from cold.

If you just change the idle setting to 4 deg now it will just stall.

You must verify the ignition timing with a strobe, not forgetting that wasted spark alters the reading. Your trigger is hidden under a cover so doing this is not easy, I made a simple perspex cover.

If you don't set the throttle as I suggest it makes changing a faulty TPS sensor in the field very difficult, you are unable to re set the end points correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: Big aircooled Suzuki map
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
Posts: 1179
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79
skelly wrote:
I may look into fitting some modern stick coils but not sure which type work best with an S40, any ideas ?


You can't run pencil coils with an S40, it has to be a wasted spark coil pack of some sort.


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 Post subject: Re: Big aircooled Suzuki map
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:35 am
Posts: 39
ECU Model: S40 Pro
That's a shame.
I can get various motorcycle ones that use either highside or lowside switching, surely if I wired them in series pairs it may work ??
Will it ?


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 Post subject: Re: Big aircooled Suzuki map
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
Posts: 1179
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79
People have run amplified coils on an S40. It's not recommended, as the S40 hasn't got heatsinks, but it has been known to work.
You may need a pull up depending on the coils.

I haven't done it, so I can't help with details.


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 Post subject: Re: Big aircooled Suzuki map
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:35 am
Posts: 39
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Ok, stuff that then,
I don't need extra complexity with a pull up and chancing it.
What I may need is to be pointed in the direction of some good reliable motorcycle coils that are known to work well with an S40.
@Alex, I sent you a video via facebook messenger to show you the strange thing that was happening to my start fuel map.
I was wondering if this is a product of unwanted RF generated by my current coils.
Cheers.
Skelly.


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 Post subject: Re: Big aircooled Suzuki map
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:08 pm
Posts: 272
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 29
Alex DTA wrote:
skelly wrote:
I may look into fitting some modern stick coils but not sure which type work best with an S40, any ideas ?


You can't run pencil coils with an S40, it has to be a wasted spark coil pack of some sort.


Why? Can you not place an ignition amp between the COPs and the S40? Something like a Bosch 0 227 100 211 - excuse the pdf from a rival LOL!


Attachments:
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 Post subject: Re: Big aircooled Suzuki map
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2947
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
generally the amp takes a low level signal and allows a high current to run from it.

In this case, the S40 is already intended for inductive coils, so you're sort of doing the opposite.

I guess some sort of transistor to invert the S40 output to suit the new coils ?

Although there might be some coils out there that operate in reverse in terms of charge/fire triggering ? I know some Hondas did it backwards


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