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 Post subject: Re: 14point7 iDash
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:35 am 
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Location: Norn Iron
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The EGT even responded that fast ? I didnt think a thermocouple could respond that quick ?


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 Post subject: Re: 14point7 iDash
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:52 pm 
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ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 29
stevieturbo wrote:
The EGT even responded that fast ? I didnt think a thermocouple could respond that quick ?


As I understand it, thermocouples are continuous output and the 'K' types show 50uv/deg C so its only a matter of signal capture? Whatever it does - it showed where it got expensive in 7 short seconds of fun!


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 Post subject: Re: 14point7 iDash
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:31 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Correct, the open tip are crazy fast and if you capture fast enough you can tell combustion cycles apparently.
10Hz gives us enough info for checking what we already know/suspect and trimming the tune from the dyno to on the track. It didn't pick up a melted spark plug earth electrode though when fuel pressure dropped, luckily the driver is a legend and backed out of it - and still won the race in lapped traffic.

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 Post subject: Re: 14point7 iDash Review
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:49 pm 
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Location: Norn Iron
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Open tip ?

I've a thermocouple with a very small tip, but never see very fast and wide temperature swings, at least not in hundredths or even tenths of a second.

Even going from WOT to almost closed throttle where you'd think a fair amount of cool air is passing through the engine ?

One example at the end of a 1km pre-turbine hit 994degC, 1 second after closed throttle its only down to 900degC, logged at 20Hz

Maybe despite cooler air passing it's just residual heat in manifolds etc keeping it high ?


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 Post subject: Re: 14point7 iDash Review
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:34 am 
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I suspect it is residual heat though could be the housing around the tip also slowing the cooling/heating.
Anyways, thought I'd report back now we've had a few more race meetings and I've gained a bit more experience with the unit, and with methanol.

I emailed Alan regarding the EGT spikes and he asked me to send it back, but as I can read the data and filter out the spikes with my eyes we'll keep using it for now. I believe it is ignition interference, as everything crammed in a small area with CDI high tension passing near it can't be helping the cause. I'll try it in a normal car with inductive ignition and the HT leads further away at a later date. It does what we need for now.

The unit has proven invaluable, combined with driver feedback and reading plugs it is an awesome tool, especially at the price point. We've worked out we appear to be in uncharted territory that no one seems to run a methanol engine quite like we do (and have data on it), and we need to run it relatively fat (phat :mrgreen: ) to get it to stop melting plugs. The reason is no one else seems to hold and engine wide open for a minute and a half - which appears to be when the spark plug electrode gives up and melts into a ball and/or exits the chamber. The setup of the car means that if he's out front (which is common) he can throw it into the corners and keep his foot hard up it.

So initially we were going on what we'd been told and research seemed to back up, to run it between 5.5:1 to 5:1, which is around λ0.86 - 0.79.
Occasionally spark plug earth strap or ceramic would go AWOL. So we progressively added more fuel (it's carb'd) and under WOT ended up with around 5.1:1 - 4.1:1 (λ0.80 - 0.64) which incidentally is where the unit stops reading afr!
To be fair, I've never run anything that rich - but on methanol it loves it and keeps making power. Which means it must have been massively rich to be bogging after it came off the dyno!

It's also a compromise using a carburetor, as it obviously is most efficient at around 7500rpm where it's leanest at λ0.80 and drops off to λ0.64 by 9500 rpm - though it does run up to 10,500rpm reasonably regularly.

Just thought some of you might find this interesting. I'll try and get some screenshots of the logs up if I remember at some stage.

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 Post subject: Re: 14point7 iDash Review
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:12 am 
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I always thought methanol guys ran down into the 3's ? I've never used methanol though

I think Haltech and a couple of others did claim they had Methanol capable wideband units...but not sure on their actual ranges.

As for plugs, NGK's ( and Denso too ) make nice race plugs with a short straight electrode which would be a lot more robust.

ie the middle pic. Not cheap though. Cant say I've ever heard of anyone using surface discharge plugs either though, or what their ranges or viability is actually like.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: 14point7 iDash Review
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:45 pm 
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A lot of guys are telling him to use race plugs, eg suface discharge. However, he likes the fact that he gets a warning from the electrode instead of melting pistons out the exhaust valve or whatever if something goes wrong.

And yeah, boosted guys go down to 3's, there's not much info on n/a that's not drag racing. I should sign up to HRE forum I guess but I think we're sorted now.

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 Post subject: Re: 14point7 iDash Review
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:05 pm 
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Most times if the electrode is gone...it's ended up down the side of a piston too !! lol

Not the sort or warning I'd want lol


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 Post subject: Re: 14point7 iDash Review
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:46 pm 
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Tends to go out the exhaust or melt into a ball and stay attached. Leakdown then head off to check over after it happens, but so far the bottom end hasn't needed any love.

EGT's don't give any warning, they plateau and appear ok-ish, maxing around 1350 F, just seems it's too high for prolonged period. Most of the EGT info available is for drag racing in the manner of "xyz egt by end of track" which it turns out is too high for us. Trying to keep them below 1250 and running richer than we have been appears to do the trick. Most of the midget guys have no idea what their EGT's or AFR are, they run by engine temp which I think is crazy. If it's running too hot (coolant temp) then richen it up.

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 Post subject: Re: 14point7 iDash Review
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Have some screenshots of logs if anyone is interested. http://imgur.com/a/GPvIL

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