S80 on bmw V8

This section is dedicated to discussion of DTA engine control units such as the DTA E48 EXP, P8 Pro, DTA S40, S60, S80, and S100, as well as all things ECU related.
jon1465
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:42 pm
ECU Model: No ECU

S80 on bmw V8

Post by jon1465 »

I am looking for a standalone system that can run my supercharged BMW V8.

I have installed many DTA systems before at my old employer but never got involved in the setup side only the wiring.

It is a BMW M62 engine with single vanos on the inlet cams. I know the s series can do dual vanos on the S54 engine but is it possible to run it on my application?
there is a 3 wire cam sensor per bank (i think they are hall effect,) and one solenoid per bank. I'm thinking Aux 1 and Aux 3 outputs should work?

the car also has drive by wire but I may remove that and run a cable throttle with a bosch idle valve.

The crank trigger is a 60-2 ring gear with a 2 wire sensor, unsure of type currently.

The cam trigger wheels are the same both bank but are a strange design, does anyone know if they will work with a DTA?
Image

I also have 2 AEM wideband gauges that have a 0-5v output, am I correct in thinking it is not possible for them to work on a DTA as they only have a narrowband input?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)
stevieturbo
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: S80 on bmw V8

Post by stevieturbo »

60-2 for crank is vine, as will be the OEM sensor.

DTA will be quite happy with both widebands for per bank monitoring and corrections.

Cam trigger normally wants to see 1 tooth, so that may need to be modified...although if that same trigger is used for the VVT it may be a little awkward. Never done variable valve timing on one, so cant comment on that aspect.
But there will always be some workarounds.

DBW can easily convert to cable throttle as you say, no big deal there. Even the idle valve can be optional. It shouldnt be hard at all to get a perfectly acceptable idle at all times just using ign timing for control.
jon1465
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:42 pm
ECU Model: No ECU

Re: S80 on bmw V8

Post by jon1465 »

stevieturbo wrote:60-2 for crank is vine, as will be the OEM sensor.

DTA will be quite happy with both widebands for per bank monitoring and corrections.

Cam trigger normally wants to see 1 tooth, so that may need to be modified...although if that same trigger is used for the VVT it may be a little awkward. Never done variable valve timing on one, so cant comment on that aspect.
But there will always be some workarounds.

DBW can easily convert to cable throttle as you say, no big deal there. Even the idle valve can be optional. It shouldnt be hard at all to get a perfectly acceptable idle at all times just using ign timing for control.
Thanks for the quick reply Stevie,

Good news on the crank sensor and widebands :)

Yes the one trigger wheel is used for cam position and Vanos which is where I thought the sticking point would be
stevieturbo
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: S80 on bmw V8

Post by stevieturbo »

That'll be one for Alex
Alex DTA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79

Re: S80 on bmw V8

Post by Alex DTA »

stevieturbo is correct on the crank trigger and wideband, but not the cam.

Our ECUs only use one tooth on the cam trigger, but we don't require the cams to only have a single tooth. We essentially pick out a tooth on the cam trigger if there is more than one.
There are different options for different cam patterns, and there are very few standard patterns we can't use, even with the generic flywheel modes.

M62 uses "standard" VANOS, not the S54 style twin VANOS, which is why there is only one valve. This is easy to control on an S80.

Just wire up the VANOS cam sensor, so the ECU can monitor the movement. You fill in the cam sensor angle with the cams fully retarded, and the ECU will then know how much the cams have been advanced by simply measuring the movement.
jon1465
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:42 pm
ECU Model: No ECU

Re: S80 on bmw V8

Post by jon1465 »

Alex DTA wrote:stevieturbo is correct on the crank trigger and wideband, but not the cam.

Our ECUs only use one tooth on the cam trigger, but we don't require the cams to only have a single tooth. We essentially pick out a tooth on the cam trigger if there is more than one.
There are different options for different cam patterns, and there are very few standard patterns we can't use, even with the generic flywheel modes.

M62 uses "standard" VANOS, not the S54 style twin VANOS, which is why there is only one valve. This is easy to control on an S80.

Just wire up the VANOS cam sensor, so the ECU can monitor the movement. You fill in the cam sensor angle with the cams fully retarded, and the ECU will then know how much the cams have been advanced by simply measuring the movement.
So going off what you have said there would it be as simple as machining all other teeth off bar one?
Rob Stevens
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
ECU Model: S100 Pro
Distributor: None-Coil On Plug :)

Re: S80 on bmw V8

Post by Rob Stevens »

No need as the ecu is looking at a window where the interesting one is. However I guess it can't do any harm, but you can't go back!
jon1465
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:42 pm
ECU Model: No ECU

Re: S80 on bmw V8

Post by jon1465 »

Rob Stevens wrote:No need as the ecu is looking at a window where the interesting one is. However I guess it can't do any harm, but you can't go back!
Your correct I read Alex's reply wrong, that makes life easier.


I plan to get the ecu up and running on a standard engine before adding the supercharger.
I'm very new to all this so I maybe suggesting something stupid!
Would it be possible by looking in the standard ecu to look at the timing points and fueling to create a base map?
stevieturbo
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: S80 on bmw V8

Post by stevieturbo »

In short...yes.. In reality, it can be slow.

If you can log inj pulse width, manifold pressure, throttle position, rpm and ign timing whilst you are driving the standard engine, you could start to fill in your new tables. ( via one of those OBD type apps or something )

There will be lots of gaps, but it wont be a big deal to populate a table and smooth/guess to cover the empty cells.

it wont be perfect and there will be a few other factors but it will get you a good starting point
jon1465
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:42 pm
ECU Model: No ECU

Re: S80 on bmw V8

Post by jon1465 »

stevieturbo wrote:In short...yes.. In reality, it can be slow.

If you can log inj pulse width, manifold pressure, throttle position, rpm and ign timing whilst you are driving the standard engine, you could start to fill in your new tables. ( via one of those OBD type apps or something )

There will be lots of gaps, but it wont be a big deal to populate a table and smooth/guess to cover the empty cells.

it wont be perfect and there will be a few other factors but it will get you a good starting point
The standard ecu runs a MAF sensor no map sensor (main reason for going standalone,) which would make it more difficult to use the settings.
Or does someone have a base map out there?
Maybe I could get the base settings needed to start so I know it's all possible, then I can have it mapped properly once the supercharger is fitted.
I plan to make it plug and play using an old ecu header so I can swap between the two ecus easily.

The next thing is I need to decide weather to keep the drive by wire and get myself an STC also.
I also need to find someone who can map this, does anyone have any recommendations?
Post Reply