Honda S2000 engine in Escort G3

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mefmotorsport
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Honda S2000 engine in Escort G3

Post by mefmotorsport »

Hi there,

I have an RWD Escort Mk3 here that belongs to a rally guy, it has a Honda S2000 engine fitted and running on DTA S60 with ATP power TB's. supposed to be 260bhp

The car runs well but occasionally cuts out for no apparent reason, it restarts after switching off the power then back on again.

Ive looked at the map and see that its running on Honda flywheel mode 9, it has a cam sensor fitted and its running sequential injection and coil per plug as standard (external amps).

It has 3943 cam sensor errors but im not sure how long this was before it had been reset. The cam sensor is a hall effect, looks like a home made job, its a 8mm threaded sensor like those used as a wheel speed sensor and its been fitted in the OE position but on the exhaust cam side at the back of the engine. This sensor has obviously been cobbled in for some reason as its cable is external to the main loom. (there was a chopped off screened cable inside the loom connected to the magnetic cam sensor input.

The wiring is loom was a complete mess, looks like its been modified several times, I couldnt find anything especially wrong with it but there were wires chopped off here and there and dissused wires inside tape etc....

So Ive built a brand new loom for it. (not fitted yet)

Honda Flywheel mode 9 denotes 12 teeth with NONE missing so it MUST have a cam sensor fitted.

It has "Vetec" but its only a one shot thing that gets 12V applied (via a relay) from the vetec output at 4500rpm (set in the Vetec control settings)

I notice that the DTA sample map for the MGA has "twin spark" selected, "sequential injection" is active but one coil per plug= NO.

Im wondering why the cam sensor has been home made, there's also an inlet cam sensor fitted but that's unused (2 pin so I assume magnetic)

I was told it was mapped recently by Mick Gilman at Mikeanics, Congleton.

can anyone enlighten me on this engine?

Thanks.
stevieturbo
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Re: Honda S2000 engine in Escort G3

Post by stevieturbo »

It will be a difficult one, without diagnosing exactly what caused the cut out in the first place.

Total power cut, cut with restricted rpm...could the cut have been external like a fuel pump etc ?

Can you run it batch fire as a test ?

How often or repeatable was the cut in the first place ?
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mefmotorsport
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Re: Honda S2000 engine in Escort G3

Post by mefmotorsport »

Hi Stevie, just random cut during a stage, not too sure on exact circumstances, the car is new to this owner, everything an unknown quantity, will see what happens on new loom very soon, just about to fit it! I'll try various tests and options. I just noticed that the crimp connector providing the main 12v power feed has come off the power wire when I removed the old loom so even that's a possibility of cause of caution out, wasn't properly crimped at all! Also I found that the main chassis earth was poor and not properly tightened, that could also cause big problems.
stevieturbo
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Re: Honda S2000 engine in Escort G3

Post by stevieturbo »

Any datalogs ?

Can it be replicated or was it a one off type of thing ?

Certainly bad connections of any kind will do it, just a case of finding out which ones lol
Alex DTA
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Re: Honda S2000 engine in Escort G3

Post by Alex DTA »

There are two versions of the S2000, nominally Gen 1 and Gen 2.

Gen 1 uses a 12-0 crank trigger, so requires a cam sensor.
Gen 2 uses the K20A crank trigger with 12+1, so can be run wasted spark/grouped injection.
Sounds like that's a Gen 1.

Gen 1 run very well if wired correctly. If one of the sensors is wire backwards, all sorts of strange things happen.
It sounds like there were running issues, so the cam sensor has been swapped for a hall effect version. Unusual.
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mefmotorsport
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Re: Honda S2000 engine in Escort G3

Post by mefmotorsport »

Thanks Alex,

Well its up and running well now on my new loom after dealing with some strange 3 pin AMP pin out variation on the TPS ! TPS now calibrated and working.

The only errors previously were Cam sensor errors to the tune of 3944 but I see that the last time it was reset was May 2016.

I've reset the diagnostics and so far there's no errors showing up, its running nicely too. There's an orange light inside the cam sensor that's amusing but it seems to be working fine.

The engine is struggling to get hot though, the guy said he's removed the thermostat, also I spotted that they have the radiator expansion tank piped up to the radiator wrongly, they have the expansion coming off the same end of the radiator as the feed from the tank itself, the expansion back to the tank should come from the top hose side! I might have time to alter this for him.

Its amazing how frequently I see the fuel pump and fan relay outputs not being used, they just have switches! I've left this as it was.

I'm not convinced about these AT Power TB's, I cant find a slow running/idle stop screw to adjust the idle speed!

Anyway its running, all we can do is give it a good test and see how things go, hopefully I've eliminated some problems.
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Re: Honda S2000 engine in Escort G3

Post by stevieturbo »

Some people do the strangest things, especially "rally" types etc.

One car I'd do some tuning on.....the owner had a perfectly good heater, perfectly good setup....but for some bizarre reason removed it all, removed ecu control of the fans etc and turned the car into a piece of shit !

Now in the wet his window steams up, because he's no heater to clear the damn thing, and the car itself is barely nothing more than a road car anyway ( only does hillclimbs etc but in road class )

I can appreciate some people want to work at their own cars...but really, just really far too often they shouldnt be allowed near them. They only end up costing themselves a fortune and more down time missing races !
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mefmotorsport
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Re: Honda S2000 engine in Escort G3

Post by mefmotorsport »

Another problem I found today was that the engine was showing only 60 degrees C in the software after running for over 20 mins, It actually seemed to be physically a lot hotter than this (I cant find my infrared heat gun). I suspected the Honda water temp sender was either u/s or just not correct calibration even though it was selected in the sensor dropdown menu. I replaced it with a Bosch one (just happened to be the same thread) and changed the selected sensor in DTASwin, now it seems to be more like it, can get it up to indicate its 90 degrees now. I suspect it could really do with the thermostat refitting since its very slow to warm up without one.
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Re: Honda S2000 engine in Escort G3

Post by stevieturbo »

Never really did understand why people remove the stat....if they think they know better than Honda, they must be impressive ! lol
PhillipM
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Re: Honda S2000 engine in Escort G3

Post by PhillipM »

I've seen a few people cook them without the stat in as the bypass bleeds air from the head - they usually blank it off and end up with an air pocket up there!

My cals for the Gen 2 water and air temperature sensors are a bit different from the old K20 ones in the drop down menu so that may be the issue there, although IIRC the Gen 1 sensors are different again.
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