S40 ignition only on a turbo bug - oscilloscope problems

[bazibbo]

I've got my oil pipe fittings on order so I should be able to get back on with things in a few days.

I'll get hold of a multimeter and check cranking voltage and I'll recheck / revisit the dsensor distance.

Looks like I am set to recognise the 36 /1 wheel. Here's a dump of my general engine settings.



Does make me wonder if the 51 degrees BTDC is meant to be there rather than a random figure, waiting for me to run the oscilloscope.

Rpm limits need dropping a bit.

Ok I'm not convinced this is the main ignition map, don't laugh, I'm so out of my comfort zone...



There's no TPS, I'm running a single Renault 5 turbo carb until I get my head around this and upgrade to injection. Engine's 1914cc with a counterbalanced standard throw crank (standard ones aren't counterbalanced) mildish bugpack cam, and 041 bigger valve heads. Not a particularly high spec, but should be a bit over 150 bhp with the garrett t3. Not as impressive as some of yours but (if it runs!) should be fun, especially when it comes to stopping.





This is before I put it all together, they're all sat inside the car, under the rear parcel shelf. The loom came complete, and is a full injection loom. All I had to connect is the MAP sensor and battry +ve , -ve, and a live switch.

The only bits I messed with are the 3 wires to the coilpack, whick were cut then rejoined (soldered and heatshrunk) as I was unhappy with cutting a huge hole in the car. I left the shielded crank sencor wiring totally alone.



Crank end play... Oh how all the aircooled crowd love to talk about that. But yes, that's a more than valid point and one to keep my eye on...

ta

[lumley32]

also, 15 thou sounds very close, as they do look like fairly large teeth

Really? i have only ever had improvements with small gaps? better signal definition at high revs, or do hall effect sensors behave that much differently?

used to run down to a 0.001 on a old bike engine with a mbe system! otherwise it would miss-fire over 14 000 rpm

back to the point!

if its such a wide spread system then i would expect its some thing silly like a low crank speed or low cranking volts.

51 degs could be right, cant tell without a oscilloscope reading or a photo of the crank wheel when its on TDC #1

[Airspeed]

I agree with Jon: 0.015" sensor gap is waaayyy too small. Thats only about 0,38mm! I had trouble with 0,80mm and ran great at 1,00mm 1,2 mm will also work good, but I shoot for 1,0mm (~0.040").

The 51 degrees is probably the exact timing for this wheel with this bracket from VWSpeedshop. I would really leave it like that.

I hope the ecu knows there are no injectors fitted. Not sure how that works out if it doesn't feel a resistance at those terminals, but try the sensor gap larger first i think.
Otherwise, did you already check with PaulH?

Best regards,
Walter

[bazibbo]

hi Walter

I'm beginning to suspect (hope!) it's a battery issue and I'm aiming to leave most things alone until I get things running.

I'll double check the sensor distance this weekend, sadly bugg*ring my oil feed line has put me on hold.

I've already run a few things past Paul, but (I guess you know Paul) I don't particularly want to keep going back for what could be simple things that I potentially should know about , particularly if I want to run an ECU, but I will if needs be. I'm expecting that the oscilloscope should answer a few of my questions.

There's definately an element of the unknown, but I've got to start somewhere.

cheers
Barrie

[Roverdose]

There's no TPS, I'm running a single Renault 5 turbo carb until I get my head around this and upgrade to injection.

your map shows %throttle, im guessing your using a map sensor for load? you need to change the maps around so it runs load and not tps.

Drew

[Airspeed]

There's no TPS, I'm running a single Renault 5 turbo carb until I get my head around this and upgrade to injection.

your map shows %throttle, im guessing your using a map sensor for load? you need to change the maps around so it runs load and not tps.

Drew

So true! Either you use a TPS or convert back to MAP

[stevieturbo]

And mount the map sensor high up, with the pipe pointing downwards, and ideally with a filter inline if possible.

They wont like getting soaked with petrol. Not so much of an issue with an efi car.

Now get to work...you've lots to check and re-do lol

The ignition map doesnt look too bad, except as others said, with no TPS it will not work.
You must re-write with MAP as load.. And as you're turbocharged, I'd be using MAP as load anyway.

[bazibbo]

Lol, cheers guys.

Give me a dew days and I'll sort em.

[claggett]

The 51 Degrees is a good start point done a start map for one of these kits a couple of weeks ago and after putting timing light on I had to change it to 49 degrees.


I would not think it will stop it running without the tps because in the settings you have the tps sensor fail set to 100% so it should just use the last collom of the map. But I could be wrong because I have not tried it.

good luck with it.

Darren

[bazibbo]

OK I've got a bit of my homework done, lack of daylight and a busy workload hasn't helped...

I've remounted and filtered the MAP sensor. All positions will get changed or redone properly once I'm up and running. I've used a bulky fuel filter for now, I can just about breathe through it but I'll change it if it's too restrictive... opinions invited.



OK secondly, after a long recharge, borrowing a jumper battery thingy and removing all the plugs, I've got a result with the oscilloscope.



with the result...
36 - 1 flywheel mode 0, 11, 13, 14 or 15 crank position at approx 10 or 190 deg, check with timing light.

I guess there's two possible positions, is there an easy way to find which one? or should I be whipping rocker covers off or re oscilloscopeing it with just no.1 plug in.... and given I don't really know what I'm looking at, will it help. Then do I simply pop 10 or 190 into the sensor position - degrees btdc box

( little concerned that the kit you had Darren was around 49-51. shouldn't my result be the same, if i'm on the same brackets etc?)


Not done much with the map other than to switch it to MAP from throttle position. but I'll look at that when it starts to run. ( boost is backed down as far as it'll go till I get it run in and AFR'd on a rolling road.)

Not got hold of a multimeter yet

Not revisited sensor gap again yet, only excuse is it's dark and it's an ar*e to get to....

cheers