S40 ignition only on a turbo bug - oscilloscope problems

This section is dedicated to discussion of DTA engine control units such as the DTA E48 EXP, P8 Pro, DTA S40, S60, S80, and S100, as well as all things ECU related.
Airspeed
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:05 am
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 63
Location: The Netherlands

Re: S40 ignition only on a turbo bug - oscilloscope problems

Post by Airspeed »

Don't come back till you have the sensor gap properly adjusted! LOL!
Maybe you also got the plug leads fitted wrongly?
Make sure leads are correct, gap is good, leave it at 51 degrees I would suggest and then just start it ;-)
11.06 @ 124.5 mph
'74 VW Beetle turbo S60pro
stevieturbo
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: S40 ignition only on a turbo bug - oscilloscope problems

Post by stevieturbo »

It's really really really easy.

Just look at where the missing teeth is....and find out where it is in relation to TDC no1

That just requires you looking with your eyes for the most part and maybe counting some teeth and then some basic maths. Then when running you can verify with a timing light.

And that filter is a little odd lol. The issue will be that the large volume will effectively damp the signal causing a little lag. No big deal for initial testing and running though.
13bussing
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:15 am
ECU Model: S40 Pro

Re: S40 ignition only on a turbo bug - oscilloscope problems

Post by 13bussing »

Have you done a test to see if you have a spak?? and defo rechack the the leads are the right way round.

I know how annoying it is to be getting no where(Walter has been a grate help) and keep getting difernt resalts from the oscilloscope but it to bad earthing on mine.

sam
bazibbo
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:04 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: S40 ignition only on a turbo bug - oscilloscope problems

Post by bazibbo »

just about to start, waiting for a reasonable time to wake the neighbours...

With TDC at 12 o'clock the missing tooth is at approximately 5 whereas the pickup is at 3. So in relation to tdc, the missing tooth is 190 deg btdc. ( which is the only relationship i can figure that matches the oscilloscopes results)

I can't fathom the relationship between the pickup (3 oclock) the missing tooth (5 oclock ish) and the 12 oclock tdc.


I'll belt out and check I've got a spark in a mo Sam. The plug lead order I've been given is ..

with the loom wire to the left
3 1
4 2

so mine's mounted lead downwards, and is ..
1 2
3 4
which should be the same.


ok i'll try the 190 deg next
stevieturbo
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: S40 ignition only on a turbo bug - oscilloscope problems

Post by stevieturbo »

Defo NOT 190deg

If your sensor is sitting at 3'oclock, then the missing tooth is approximately 60deg before TDC cyl 1

You need to rotate the engine backwards from TDC which the image effectively shows. Locate the trailing edge of the tooth after the missing tooth at the sensor, and it this angle that you need from TDC.

So basically the angle between 3 o'clock and 5 o'clock.

So your original estimate of 50-60 or whatever it was will not be far off, but again it much be checked with a timing light.

Image

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bazibbo
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:04 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: S40 ignition only on a turbo bug - oscilloscope problems

Post by bazibbo »

thanks Stevie, you're a gent and appreciate the piccy too.

( still waiting for someone to pipe up with "you shouldn't be messing with things you don't understand" )

Had a good look at sparks... checked all individually - ok but a bit slow to start (not a particularly technical explanation) , then checked two together to confirm that 1 and 3 sparked together as expected.


I'm going to bite the bullet and buy a decent battery this afternoon. Mines 2 years old now, and was a pretty lowly 440 amps at best. I'll try and get something 600+ cranking amps and go from there.

(still probably makes more sence to buy a multimeter and test it first! but it's only gonna tell me what I know!

I'll report back.
stevieturbo
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: S40 ignition only on a turbo bug - oscilloscope problems

Post by stevieturbo »

So what is the actual problem now ?

You have an approximate crank trigger setting that should allow the engine to start.

I assume everything is wired correctly ?

What ignition setup are you using. ie coil pack, dizzy ?

Have you confirmed spark available at all 4 cylinders ?

And obviously there needs to be some sensible numbers in the map to allow it to start so you can check timing
bazibbo
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:04 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: S40 ignition only on a turbo bug - oscilloscope problems

Post by bazibbo »

Popped a brand new battery on tonight - quite a lot bigger, and it spins quicker too.

No joy though. :cry:

OK a few bits.

ecu is set to recognise 36 - 1
Set to 51 degrees.
Haven't touched map other than to set MAP rather than throttle position.
Added specific MAP sensor on MAP choice screen.

Spark at all 4 plugs.
2 banks firing together 1,3 and 2, 4. Tried swapping both sets around.
Ford coilpack, no dissy.

Fuel is getting through to the exhaust - I'll check for a wet plug tomorrow.

There were only 3 wires to join - battery +ve, battery -ve and live switch. Guess these all work, it powers up ok.

Had to cut the 3 coilpack wires, to get them through the body, but resoldered and shrinkwrapped. Pretty certain they're fine.

Will recheck sensor gap tomorrow, but 015 is spec'd by supplier.

Ran a oscilloscope for the first time with plugs in and new battry ( wouldn't collect a result before, without removing plugs ) and it abruptly blew my laptop battery! - if that means anything. Hopeing it won't try anything wilst on the power supply. I'll try that tomorrow.

I'm going to try a bottle of wine. Won't help the car but I'll feel better for it! try again tomorrow...
stevieturbo
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: S40 ignition only on a turbo bug - oscilloscope problems

Post by stevieturbo »

So are 1+3 and 2+4 the correct wasted pairs ?

And if the plugs are soaked, which I'll guess they must be by now, throw them in the bin.

Obviously you will need to create a proper timing map with sensible figures to allow it to start, and ensure any other sensors etc are giving sensible readings.

Although why your laptop blew is a mystery. That should not happen lol
claggett
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:22 am
ECU Model: S40 Pro

Re: S40 ignition only on a turbo bug - oscilloscope problems

Post by claggett »

51 degrees will work.
dont worry about the crank oscilloscope!

also on your screen shot you have the firing tooth on start up set to 0 in general engine settings Ihave mine set to 1 so it goes to 10 degrees on start up (I think thats correct someone will let you know)


Darren
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