e85 sensor, boost speed control

Discuss which Sensors work best with these ECUs and share how you are using inputs and outputs
Fredrik
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Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:01 pm
ECU Model: P8 Pro

Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by Fredrik »

I like the DTA ecu and I have had some success on a few builds I have been involved in and that is why I am frustrated that it is so restricted with turbo engines.
stevieturbo
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Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by stevieturbo »

Fredrik wrote:What the Yenks are doing on Hondas anyway is with ether a 4 port solenoid or dual 3 port solenoids alter boost on ether side of the wastegate diaphragm. A regular 3 port mostly ads boost only to the topside OR takes away boost on the bottom side to increase boost. That only works to the point were exhaust manifold pressure pushs the wastgate valve open. Adding boost to the topside and take away on the bottom side fixes that. You also have more control of when the wastegate starts to open. That also helps spool.

A 4 port or a dual 3 port makes it possible to have a wider range of boost settings or have higher boost with a smaller wastegate springs. That is not possible with a singel 3 port.
There is nothing a 4 port can do, that a 3 port cannot do. And a 3 port responds faster.


And as for their approach of using 2 solenoids one as a fill and another as a vent on the top chamber....really, unless you're using a CO2 bottle this approach is pretty dumb and pointless.

Obviously if you have very specific requirements, you need to select an ecu that will work for you. The P8 is over 15 years old...so there is little reason you'd expect it to have all the bells and whistles of a modern ecu. Even the S-series is approaching 10 years old so again, there will be limitations. It is also a slightly more budget and simple ecu so will target a specific audience. If that audience is not you...fair enough.
We all outgrow things eventually and need something different.
Fredrik
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:01 pm
ECU Model: P8 Pro

Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by Fredrik »

Look at the picture on the external waste gate. How can that be duplicated with a singel 3 port?

Image
Fredrik
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:01 pm
ECU Model: P8 Pro

Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by Fredrik »

I agree.. The ecus are old and you cant expect them to to everything. But to me this is pretty basic stuff and there are a lot of more advanced stuff you can do in the s series then this. It is just boost and ethanol functions is rely poor and the 3 flexible analogs channels are way to few. At least I am kind of surprised that these functions are not developed moor. Maybe it is because e85 is at every gas station here and not in all of Europe but high performance boosted cars should at least be everywhere.

My guess is that customers or race series that needs a lot of ecu:s do not need this functions and they are moor prioritized then the highly tuned street/racing cars.
stevieturbo
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Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by stevieturbo »

Very easily. Although then only caveat I would add is to locate a small bleed hole on the top chamber somewhere otherwise it can be tricky to get stable control in some areas. Something around 0.6-0.8mm will be perfectly fine and have no real effect on pressure lost when blowing into top chamber only.
I've used this on my own car since I switched to turbos and have had no issue running from base 7psi spring to 30psi. It would do a little more but I havent felt the need to try.
But of course every application is different, but most 4cyl cars would use a stronger base spring as you'd never really want such low boost on a small engine.

Image

That said, you could still use a pair of 3 port solenoids, one hooked up to each chamber but connected to same wiring. Just plumbed so they blow in opposite directions so to speak, so at 0% duty pressure is only applied to lower chamber and at 100% pressure is only applied to the top chamber. But it's messy when a single 3 port will do the same job.

And E85 is not available at any pump in the UK, so it's no real surprise it isnt a widely used for feature. I'm more surprised Allan even offered any features for it.
You just need to look on this forum, whilst Allan was in charge many things were asked for over the years. If Allan didnt like them or feel they were needed....they didnt happen. Simple as.
Although there may be software/hardware limitations in some areas.

I'm sure over time Alex will be addressing some of them within the bounds of what is possible. But again...both ecu's are very old platforms, there's only so much that can be done.
Fredrik
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:01 pm
ECU Model: P8 Pro

Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by Fredrik »

That will probably work just fine. I like a 4 port better though.
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ignitionautosport
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Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by ignitionautosport »

4port doesn't need the bleed in top chamber. Is this still 2wire sol though? Failing to see the issue if it is.
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stevieturbo
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Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by stevieturbo »

It works perfectly and yes just a 2 wire solenoid.
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