e85 sensor, boost speed control

Discuss which Sensors work best with these ECUs and share how you are using inputs and outputs
Fredrik
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:01 pm
ECU Model: P8 Pro

e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by Fredrik »

I am frustrated with the only three flexible analog inputs with both the p8pro and the s series.

Do I have to use one of those to alter boost with a second boost solenoid and a e85 sensor as input. To me it is a mystery that there is no boost column vs ethanol value on the s series at least. I have a p8pro at this time though.

Also it should be pretty common to alter boost by gear or speed or both.. How is people doing this?

As I have the p8pro and i need to use one of the analogs for controling my staged injector controler .

Another for batterycompensation and injector deadtime compensation.

One more for Wideband lambda input.

One more for etanol content as input controling the second boost valve . As I cant adjust the main boost vale with this or with wheelspeed or gear etc..

Am I the only one missing these functions? Or have a missed something. To me this is pretty basic needs.

Aslo a frequenzy vs wheelspeed output would be nice to control electrical powersteering etc..
Alex DTA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79

Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by Alex DTA »

Hi Frederik

The P8 is quite old now, so has a lot less functionality than the S Series.
Fredrik wrote:I am frustrated with the only three flexible analog inputs with both the p8pro and the s series.
3 analogues for most applications. However, I am looking to increase them at some point.
Fredrik wrote:Do I have to use one of those to alter boost with a second boost solenoid and a e85 sensor as input. To me it is a mystery that there is no boost column vs ethanol value on the s series at least.
That's not something that get's asked for, so it hasn't been developed. I'll add it to the enhancements list.
Fredrik wrote:Also it should be pretty common to alter boost by gear or speed or both.. How is people doing this?
This is available in the S Series.
Fredrik wrote:As I have the p8pro and i need to use one of the analogs for controling my staged injector controler .

Another for batterycompensation and injector deadtime compensation.

One more for Wideband lambda input.

One more for etanol content as input controling the second boost valve . As I cant adjust the main boost vale with this or with wheelspeed or gear etc..
I'm not sure I understand what you're doing here. You seem to be using more analogue inputs than there are, and using them for standard functions available elsewhere? Can you add some more detail?
Fredrik wrote:Aslo a frequenzy vs wheelspeed output would be nice to control electrical powersteering etc..
This is also available on the S Series.
Fredrik
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:01 pm
ECU Model: P8 Pro

Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by Fredrik »

Thanks for the reply.. Yes the p8pro is old.. Even the s series with a freaking serial cable and no usb is old. I will get a another ecu and some point but I need to get this car running first.. The s80 or s100 might be the ticket.. Especially with more analog inputs.

Yes I described more inputs then I had.. That was my point.

I looked into the s series software but could not find the functions you discribe outside the flexible analog inputs using dual solenoids etc..

Please describe how one can control the one and only boost solenoid by speed and/or gear.. I cant find it in the software I got.. I just realised I might have an old version.. I cant find anything about sequential shift control etc ether that I read here about in the s100.. I will look in to it..
Alex DTA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79

Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by Alex DTA »

Fredrik wrote:Thanks for the reply.. Yes the p8pro is old.. Even the s series with a freaking serial cable and no usb is old. I will get a another ecu and some point but I need to get this car running first.. The s80 or s100 might be the ticket.. Especially with more analog inputs.
S series is also 10 years old now. It's due an update, but will take a while to build and test.
More analogue inputs aren't going to be available soon unfortunately.
Fredrik wrote:I looked into the s series software but could not find the functions you discribe outside the flexible analog inputs using dual solenoids etc..
I think there's a miscommunication there. There is no standard for controlling dual turbo valves.
However, if you fit a cam sensor to an S Series, you can use all the Cam control outputs for this, as they have full 20 x 14 PWM maps.
Alternatively you can use the Aux 1, 2, or 3 for this as well. These are not tied to the analogue inputs on the S Series, so you can use different values to trigger them.
Fredrik wrote:Please describe how one can control the one and only boost solenoid by speed and/or gear.. I cant find it in the software I got.. I just realised I might have an old version..
You can't control it directly by speed, you can only apply a modifier to the base PWM. This can be by gear or speed.
Fredrik wrote:I cant find anything about sequential shift control etc ether that I read here about in the s100.. I will look in to it..
Do you mean paddle shift, or flat shifting (shift cut)?
The S100 has a full paddle shift system built in.
All S Series ECUs have flat shifting, either open loop, or full closed loop using the gear box barrel potentiometer.
stevieturbo
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by stevieturbo »

And there really is no need to have more than one independent solenoid for controlling boost.

The yanks seem to do a bizarre thing with 2 solenoids though...only the yanks and it's mostly when using CO2 or high other pressure air.
Fredrik
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:01 pm
ECU Model: P8 Pro

Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by Fredrik »

Since you cant change the boost pwm with e85 content in the ethanol tables you could use a flexible analog input 1-3 and have another solenoid in series with the main boost solenoid, That way you can manipulate main boost with e85 content.. But it will involve alot of trial and error to work out the values to gett the wanted amount of boost..


I was looking a bit on the e85 tables in the s series software and it seems that you can not change the main boost solenoid there according to ethanol content as stated in above posts.. You also change the whole ignition map to ethanol content and that is far from optimal.. Also it doesnt have a 0-5v input from other e85 sensors available that comes with a gauge. The zeitronix ones etc

If I make 800whp on a 4 cyl on e85 and want to be able to run regular petrol using a e85 sensor. I want to reduce boost and retard ignition differently across the load cells.. As it is set up now as far as I can see I can only change the WHOLE ignition map a certain amount of degrees vs ethanol content. That is the same amount of degrees retard at full boost as at idle.. That is useless. I bet there will be hard to pass the yearly emision tests on all contents.
I am not a very experienced tuner but I guess I would want a petrol map and a e85 map and have some kind of interpolation between those two maps according to ethanol content. Also a boost vs ethanol vs rpm table..
Rob Stevens
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
ECU Model: S100 Pro
Distributor: None-Coil On Plug :)

Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by Rob Stevens »

You could arrange for an automatic switch to switch to map 2 when E85 is detected by looping across to an anna input, but this would use up an anna input and Aux output, but it would be automatic.
Fredrik
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:01 pm
ECU Model: P8 Pro

Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by Fredrik »

I am not sure if I understand you correct but that is lika 2 stages right? Ether e85 in the tank or not?? What I am looking for is automated 3 dimensional ignition retard compared to ethanol content.
Fredrik
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:01 pm
ECU Model: P8 Pro

Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by Fredrik »

What the Yenks are doing on Hondas anyway is with ether a 4 port solenoid or dual 3 port solenoids alter boost on ether side of the wastegate diaphragm. A regular 3 port mostly ads boost only to the topside OR takes away boost on the bottom side to increase boost. That only works to the point were exhaust manifold pressure pushs the wastgate valve open. Adding boost to the topside and take away on the bottom side fixes that. You also have more control of when the wastegate starts to open. That also helps spool.

A 4 port or a dual 3 port makes it possible to have a wider range of boost settings or have higher boost with a smaller wastegate springs. That is not possible with a singel 3 port.
Last edited by Fredrik on Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rob Stevens
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
ECU Model: S100 Pro
Distributor: None-Coil On Plug :)

Re: e85 sensor, boost speed control

Post by Rob Stevens »

whatever!
DTA has some limitations for sure, use another system if you can find the same features/value you are looking for, ok Ive had a few pints now :)
It works just fine for me and is nice to use, but very restrictive on the input/output assignment for sure. BTW I use most of the features including the gearbox controller but not turbo so im not 100% clear on that.
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