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 Post subject: Re: coil problem
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:57 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:27 am
Posts: 17
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Firmware Version: 82.16
Have been looking at it again.

If I disconnect al the plugs on the coils, fuse doesn't pop.
Was measuring and on pin E from coil it reads 12.3volt, that's correct.
But if I measure on pin A it also reads 12.3v. The manual from the coils says the trigger signal needs to be 0-5v.
Could this be the problem?


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 Post subject: Re: coil problem
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2883
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
I've used various coils and not had issue with the DTA's trigger/charge voltage, although not those specific coils.

I do use those coils on my own engine with Syvecs and I charge them with 5.5v. For no other reason than I wanted to instead of 5v lol. But I never tried 12v.

I would highly doubt that is the problem, but it wouldnt be too hard to add a resistor inline to drop the voltage down a bit at the coil to test.

But if you're blowing fuses like that, it suggests you have a dead short in your wiring...not a coil problem.

Pin A is the ecu trigger. When not being charged this should be 0v, ground. When the coil is charging it should be high...or 5v
So you need to find out why with key on, engine off that this is at 12v. It should not be, but would be if external coil amps was not selected.

Pin E is your 12v supply to the coil....so yes you would expect 12v there.


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 Post subject: Re: coil problem
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
Posts: 1070
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79
stevieturbo wrote:
But if you're blowing fuses like that, it suggests you have a dead short in your wiring...not a coil problem.


Not necessarily, although it could be correct.

If an amplified coil is fed a non-amplified signal, the coil is effectively being charged until the engine starts running.
Obviously the current keeps ramping up, until either the coil burns, or the fuse blows.

Broen, if the fuse keeps blowing with Amplified Coils ticked and unticked, you probably have a wiring issue, causing the coils to be charged all the time.
The 12v vs 5v signal will not make a difference. If there was a problem with that, the coil would burn out, and never work.


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 Post subject: Re: coil problem
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2883
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
Alex DTA wrote:
stevieturbo wrote:
But if you're blowing fuses like that, it suggests you have a dead short in your wiring...not a coil problem.


Not necessarily, although it could be correct.

If an amplified coil is fed a non-amplified signal, the coil is effectively being charged until the engine starts running.
Obviously the current keeps ramping up, until either the coil burns, or the fuse blows.

Broen, if the fuse keeps blowing with Amplified Coils ticked and unticked, you probably have a wiring issue, causing the coils to be charged all the time.
The 12v vs 5v signal will not make a difference. If there was a problem with that, the coil would burn out, and never work.


In this case though the coils would get pretty damn hot...and he hasnt made any mention of that.

Apparently these coils can pull pretty high currents with lots of dwell, although I've never tested them over 4500us, at which point they really dont pull much at all. I think it was only 6A peak or so


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 Post subject: Re: coil problem
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:23 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
Posts: 1070
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79
stevieturbo wrote:
Alex DTA wrote:
stevieturbo wrote:
But if you're blowing fuses like that, it suggests you have a dead short in your wiring...not a coil problem.


Not necessarily, although it could be correct.

If an amplified coil is fed a non-amplified signal, the coil is effectively being charged until the engine starts running.
Obviously the current keeps ramping up, until either the coil burns, or the fuse blows.

Broen, if the fuse keeps blowing with Amplified Coils ticked and unticked, you probably have a wiring issue, causing the coils to be charged all the time.
The 12v vs 5v signal will not make a difference. If there was a problem with that, the coil would burn out, and never work.


In this case though the coils would get pretty damn hot...and he hasnt made any mention of that.


They won't in this case, because the fuse is blowing, and protecting the coils from overheating.


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 Post subject: Re: coil problem
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:17 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2883
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
True...but hard to imagine them ever pulling enough current to blow the fuse so quickly.

Sticking a current clamp on the supply to the coils might be useful....and of course hoping no damage has been done already.

It'd be worth removing the coil triggers from the ecu and powering things up to see what happens.


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 Post subject: Re: coil problem
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:59 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:27 am
Posts: 17
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Firmware Version: 82.16
hi,
thanks a lot for thinking about the problem.

stevieturbo wrote:

Sticking a current clamp on the supply to the coils might be useful....and of course hoping no damage has been done already.

It'd be worth removing the coil triggers from the ecu and powering things up to see what happens.

this is something i can test, removing the 4 feed wires from connector and putting 5v/12v on it from a extrenal source.
Will try to put the current clamp on the wires when i do that.

I also keep thinking there is something wrong in the wiring, but how can you explane this:
If i connect one coil (any of the 4, doens't make a difference) and leave the other 3 disconnected. The fuse doesn't blow (installed a automatic 10 amp), the moment a second one is connected (doesn't mather with one) the fuse pops imediatly.
So if al coils are broke and dead short, maybe with one being connected it still goes for the fuse and with the second one connected not anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: coil problem
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2883
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
You wont easily be able to remove the wire from the coil connector...as they use stupid pass through connectors where you push through from the connector side, rather than wire side so you'll need to remove from the ecu connector.
Or at least not without cutting the wire or removing the pin.

Key on, engine off, the trigger wire should be at pretty much 0v and no current should be drawn by the coils.

You could test by applying 5v between pins A and B ( or 12v ) But again, as normal charge times are milliseconds....not sure trying this with a manual switch would be a great idea

Although performing a coil test on the ecu should trigger the outputs in a suitable manner for you to test 1 or more coils.

And 4 coils would obviously pull more current than any 1 coil, if for some reason all 4 are drawing at the same time...which would be the case if you have 12v seen at the input pin A

And your pinout, are you sure you are correct, and also as viewed from looking into the coil connector ?


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 Post subject: Re: coil problem
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:50 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:27 am
Posts: 17
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Firmware Version: 82.16
Hi,
problem is found.
Was a STUPID mistake from me, when changing to amplified coils something must gone wrong and i did a save but not a upload to ecu :roll: . Leason learned and from now on always push F4. After the change the voltage on the signal wire came to 0volts.

When I uploaded it to ecu I tryed starting it and after 10 seconds it started :D for the first time. It even idled, but seems like it was running on 3cilinders.
Did the coil test and on coil 2 it only sparks a little bit, the other 3 coils makes sparks of 1 cm long (disconnected the plug wires and hold a plug close to the case).
So a new coil is ordered and them I can proceed.

Thanks for the help!


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 Post subject: Re: coil problem
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2883
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
https://www.facebook.com/shane.tecklenb ... 041244728/


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