Cam sensor troubleshooting

Give input on tuning as well as any tips and tricks you may have. Also feel free to share base mapping files for various engine types.
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86sixsix
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Re: Cam sensor troubleshooting

Post by 86sixsix »

not read whole thread but misses only at high rpm + load combo = not enough dwell for whatever reason

tear entire loom out further forward than steering wheel.
purchase proper loom.
connect.
drive.
Renault 1.6 K7M, '92 Clio 16v shell, Rotrex C30-74, S40, Faceache, Sh***er, YouTube Blue Shed Channel
FrankCorrado
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Re: Cam sensor troubleshooting

Post by FrankCorrado »

No enough dwell? On the coils?
Frank
VW Corrado VR6 Turbo GT3582R getting into a super light kit car
S80Pro
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86sixsix
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:01 am
ECU Model: S40 Pro
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Location: A cold garage / Sideways 'round cascades
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Re: Cam sensor troubleshooting

Post by 86sixsix »

unless you know somewhere else it can go? :D

(example off my 'shed': coil pack ought to have 3000ms. dizzy didn't like that. dropped to 2000. ran super all day long. added supercharger. boost blew spark out. would not fire over 1.25bar + 5,000 rpm (together combo). upped coil to 2250. better. upped coil to 2500. slightly hot. set to 2400 with a decrease at cranking voltages for fast(er) cold starting (my ignition system was designed by renault and renix - of course - world leaders in electricity :lol:) and never happier.)

edit: this does have sod all to do with cam errors...i presume your engine's loom's not wrapped around your ht leads and stuff hahaha
Renault 1.6 K7M, '92 Clio 16v shell, Rotrex C30-74, S40, Faceache, Sh***er, YouTube Blue Shed Channel
VR6Turbo
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Re: Cam sensor troubleshooting

Post by VR6Turbo »

He uses the same dwell and coilpack as me chap, around 3ms.

So decreasing the dwell at low cranking voltages works for you? Interesting. I find a slightly longer charge for a chunkier spark works better for me :D
FrankCorrado
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Re: Cam sensor troubleshooting

Post by FrankCorrado »

I know nowhere else, just surprised dwell time could be related to that, it's an interesting point of view, it never never never crossed my mind. :) That's why you're better. :)

Yes 3000ms with higher charge at lower cranking voltages, but I never never tried modifying this. Maybe I should. I could increase dwell time for normal operation (cuz this is not rpm driven in DTA) and see what happens.

So it's missing the trigger not cuz it misses it but cuz there's not enough spark juice?
Frank
VW Corrado VR6 Turbo GT3582R getting into a super light kit car
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FrankCorrado
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Re: Cam sensor troubleshooting

Post by FrankCorrado »

86sixsix wrote:upped coil to 2500. slightly hot.
What was hot? The exhaust temps or the coil?
Frank
VW Corrado VR6 Turbo GT3582R getting into a super light kit car
S80Pro
FrankCorrado
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Re: Cam sensor troubleshooting

Post by FrankCorrado »

86sixsix wrote:edit: this does have sod all to do with cam errors...i presume your engine's loom's not wrapped around your ht leads and stuff hahaha
I moved the cam wires much farther off the coilpack and ht leads. Due to the location the sensor is fitted through the side cover, there is a physical limit how far I can route the wire. It's now as far as possible, give or take 1-2cm. The sensor is earthed, the shield mesh (from 2-core signal) is earthed, the signal ground wire is earthed as per DTA diagram, the sensor ground wire to relay is OEM and ignition trigger to relay OEM. From relay to sensor it's not OEM. The 12v+ is not OEM at all, but it does have the same voltage as a normal OEM ignition wire and it's used for the injectors as well. Like I mentioned in a previous post, I will try to route an OEM ignition wire directly to the 12v+ sensor connection, bypassing that relay I don't really need anyway. Currently that stupid relay is used for both the injectors and cam sensor.

And up the dwell, now.
Frank
VW Corrado VR6 Turbo GT3582R getting into a super light kit car
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VR6Turbo
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Re: Cam sensor troubleshooting

Post by VR6Turbo »

He possibly means his S40 got hot running longer dwell times.

My old P8Pro used to get pretty warm running the internal coil amps on long journeys, but now I use external amps and it's super cool running 8-)

VW cap the dwell to around 3.8ms on the standard managment Frank, so that gives an idea of what the coils can cope with. You shouldn't need any more than 3ms. Run the smallest amount of dwell possible before misfiring on boost occurs as Rick said. Mine was fine with 2.6ms up to a bar of boost.
Frank un Stein wrote:the sensor ground wire to relay is OEM and ignition trigger to relay OEM.
Which relay is this?

Honestly mate, you're going round in circles here. You clearly have a wiring fault somewhere but all this information is like navigating through mud.

Seriously mate, pull out all that wiring and start over! The best thing you can do is find a s/hand, unchopped OEM loom. It all plugs into the fuseboard and the plugs are all colour coded and specific shapes and sizes, so you can't plug them into the wrong slots. You can't go wrong!!

If the standard loom works with the VW ecu with no cam or crank errors, then the same is true with the DTA.

You might like to try the dealer too. Both harnesses are still available and aren't hugely expensive either. Both harnesses meaning each side of the twist connector. The injector harness + the power and signal harness.
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86sixsix
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:01 am
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Contact:

Re: Cam sensor troubleshooting

Post by 86sixsix »

FrankCorrado wrote:
86sixsix wrote:upped coil to 2500. slightly hot.
What was hot? The exhaust temps or the coil?
the coil pack and the dizzy and no doubt the driver in the ecu. that's of little consequence to cam errors. just giving you the example so you can see what dwell does in real terms.

so you have your cam sensor and wiring 2cm from your coilpack(s) and ht leads?

me? better? no...just more patient and more methodical. don't up the dwell just because i say i did...up the dwell only for a proper scientific reason.

can you rotate your engine by hand with a bar on the crank or something and 'rock it' back and forward to check the cam pulse / errors without the motor running?

i still say tear everything out in front of the steering wheel and start afresh. it'll be better value in the long run

@VR6Turbo - combo of p*ss-taking compression levels and 21year old starter motor necessitates it. us old frenchy drivers have teensy starters and rings that're 58 yards across so the gearing's a bit ssllooww lol

edit: see, VR6Turbo says you can go and buy a nearly plug and play thing. get yer wallet out dude!
Renault 1.6 K7M, '92 Clio 16v shell, Rotrex C30-74, S40, Faceache, Sh***er, YouTube Blue Shed Channel
FrankCorrado
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:45 am
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Re: Cam sensor troubleshooting

Post by FrankCorrado »

My cam wire is many inches of the ht leads, only maybe another 2cmleft. It's further away than kev's.
Frank
VW Corrado VR6 Turbo GT3582R getting into a super light kit car
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