Adding a Charge Cooler

Give input on tuning as well as any tips and tricks you may have. Also feel free to share base mapping files for various engine types.
Turbokart
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:42 am
ECU Model: S60 Pro

Adding a Charge Cooler

Post by Turbokart »

Hello All My first post here After advise on Air temps against fuel.

I have built A Go kart for drag racing purposes only, Set up is A gsxr 1216cc With Suzuki Throttle bodies TD04 16T Turbo, S60 Ecu,

As the set up stands its running 10Psi of boost With no intercooler. My Air temp sensor is fitting in the Plenum and I'm seeing Air temps up to 64 degree by the end of the Run.
Im planning on raising the boost up 14 psi but before i do that i want to get the temps under control.

I plan To install a barrel charge cooler with a ice box as its just for drag racing. Air to air would require loads of pipe work and look untidy as its all on show. My question is hopefully the Temps come right down but in doing so will i have to add more fuel in to the Map to compensate for the colder air?

The kart was mapped on a dyno and makes 210bhp mapped via revs and throttle. Logging is showing the AFR reads at around 11.7 to 12 Under 100% throttle on full boost.


Sorry if i have missed anything out or sounded stupid this is all new to me. I really want to learn more about this side of it other than just race it.
Many thanks in advance

Ollie :D
SMR
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:38 am
ECU Model: S100 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Adding a Charge Cooler

Post by SMR »

Hi Ollie,

If you run methanol you'll get a significant cooling effect from the fuel which may allow you run without the complexity of a chargecooler/intercooler - especially on the drag strip as runs are short.
Turbokart
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:42 am
ECU Model: S60 Pro

Re: Adding a Charge Cooler

Post by Turbokart »

This has crossed my mind. Would it happen to make it run rich?
There for have to pull fuel out of my main map?

I kind of like the idea of just chucking ice in and away i go. I wonder what would be more efficient air to air of charge full of ice?

Thanks
Ollie
stevieturbo
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
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Location: Norn Iron

Re: Adding a Charge Cooler

Post by stevieturbo »

Presumably this is very light ?

Would the weight of a full chargecooler and ice box setup be justified, vs just using say methanol as the fuel ? Although obviously meethanol comes with it's own issues, but is very effective
But given the low boost etc, you could just negate a cooler at all and let the methanol do its work.


But on chargecoolers, if you have easy access to ice, then absolutely it will be a very good way to go at reducing charge temps. Although I would say I've never heard anyone give positive feedback on the barrel style coolers.

The units below are all chinese, so I cant comment on how good or bad they might be vs a good quality unit, but certainly on big power applications, cooler designs like this would always be preferred. Barrels......just no really.

http://www.frozenboost.com/air_water-ic ... p-210.html

http://www.frozenboost.com/air_water-ic ... p-948.html

There are many shapes and designs to choose from that may help your plumbing. If you can, Garrett make the best cores by far, although probably not really necessary here.

Other option would be methanol injection. I probably wouldnt bother with water in this instance. Again this could be fairly light and compact.
Alex DTA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79

Re: Adding a Charge Cooler

Post by Alex DTA »

Are your air temperature compensations set up correctly?
If so, then you shouldn't need to do anything as the ECU will compensate for the cooler air.
katana
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:08 pm
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Firmware Version: 29

Re: Adding a Charge Cooler

Post by katana »

SMR wrote: If you run methanol you'll get a significant cooling effect from the fuel which may allow you run without the complexity of a chargecooler/intercooler - especially on the drag strip as runs are short.
This was my first immediate thought! You don't say if you are using an air / air intercooler This will certainly help - I have one on my turbo GSXR and it makes 370hp at last count. Methanol means no real changes to fuel system apart from roughly double the fuel flow / map values (bigger injectors help!) Also if using alcohol - methanol, ethanol etc. - drain the fuel system at the end and run petrol through it or spray WD40 through the system whilst turning the engine over - methanol and aluminium don't get on together long term!
Other alternative is spray air / air IC with CO2 - that can get below ambient temps! Water spray was used till it dripped on track and got a bit slippy! :oops:
I'm guessing your biggest hurdle is traction even with 8" wide soft soft tyres!
Turbokart
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:42 am
ECU Model: S60 Pro

Re: Adding a Charge Cooler

Post by Turbokart »

Hi Guys
Sorry forgot to say there in no type of intercooler at the moment But i really want to get in under control before turning it up?
I have bought a charge cooler and plan to stick to V power for now to make life simple.
Im going to run a small ice tank as said and see what happens.

Katana

Grip Isn't to bad as I'm on 18" Micky Tomspons, You bike is making some serious numbers. What Gsxr is?


Alex is the air temp compensation only able to be set up on a dyno?
Many Thanks.
Ollie
Alex DTA
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Re: Adding a Charge Cooler

Post by Alex DTA »

No. Air temp compensations are a simple setting. There's even a button to set them correctly to start with.

If the air temp compensations were set correctly before mapping, the ECU will already be able to correct for the intake temps.
If they weren't, you'll need to set them correctly, and then remap to suit. Once that's done, you can do what you like with the inlet air temps, and the fuelling will be corrected.
stevieturbo
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
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Location: Norn Iron

Re: Adding a Charge Cooler

Post by stevieturbo »

The problem with "standard" air temp corrections...whilst it may be physiscs....it doesnt really take into consideration your engine will not be happy with hot air. So whilst in theory running less fuel as air gets hotter is "correct".....that isnt what will keep your engine safe if charge temps are sky rocketing.
katana
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:08 pm
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 29

Re: Adding a Charge Cooler

Post by katana »

Turbokart wrote: Katana
Grip Isn't to bad as I'm on 18" Micky Thompsons, You bike is making some serious numbers. What Gsxr is?
Originally a GSXR1100 M but bored & stroked to 1460. injected and turbo'd (natch!) Haven't run it since fitting bigger injectors
as it max duty'd the first set. I think it would better 450+hp now but might have to add mist cooling to the IC (just in case!)
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