How to setup a fuel MAP without a dyno

Give input on tuning as well as any tips and tricks you may have. Also feel free to share base mapping files for various engine types.
Jon K
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Re: How to setup a fuel MAP without a dyno

Post by Jon K »

I've also mentioned to allan that we would prefer it be tps + kpa + rpm based on over run. Hopefully we'll see that sometime.

I think one of my most annoying issues right now is super low load tuning. Like, maybe 0 - 1% throttle at 3000 RPM. It doens't engage over run so that's good, but the kPA must be below 30 kPA, and that's the lowest kPA bin on my map. So, when cruising at low load I drop below 30 kPA so it goes rich because the map ends there. Maybe I will fix that tonight/tomorrow.

What kPA do you guys start your maps out at?
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FrankCorrado
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Re: How to setup a fuel MAP without a dyno

Post by FrankCorrado »

Depends what value you put for overrun in the overrun settings. I have mine set at 2, so whenever TPS goes under 2, it's in overrun. At 0-1 it would be in overrun for me. I never engage 0-1, the engine or car starts to move above 2, so overrun under 2 for me is fine. Now I bet for you it's set at 1?

I start my map at 20kpa, cuz in the logs when I am full overrun I am at 21. If you see anything under 30, you should start at 20 and use that as overrun. If it sees 27 and you are not in overrun, the ECU interpolates values anyway, so if your fuel at 20 is set so low that it's like overrun, but at 30 you got just enough to not be in overrun, at 27 it should not go in overrun as well. That's how I have set mine.

In my Target AFR map I have set 20AFR in the 20kpa column and 14.9 in the 30kpa, cuz I know at 27 I am not in overrun.
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Re: How to setup a fuel MAP without a dyno

Post by Releeuw45 »

Do think the response time of the WB, like the LC-1 I'm using is important for CL.

I have a fairly good map already, but eager to try CL to see if I can optimize the map further.
The WB let's me set different "speeds" but I have no clue on why I would change the current value.
My Sdash show Lambda values that are fairly stable.
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Re: How to setup a fuel MAP without a dyno

Post by FrankCorrado »

What is your current value?

The response time is adjustable by the Main Sample Rate value. Of course some sensors may be so slow you could not input a high value in that cell, but with the LC-1 you should be able to achieve a good 12hz (looking 12 times per seconds for adjustments), based on what someone else used to run on his LC-1. That depends what you got as PIDs!!

If you see fairly stable values then the CL should not apply many corrections, or only very small ones. Try a sample rate of 10 and make sure you don't see any lambda oscillations, or else back off the number until you don't see any. But give it a couple of minutes each time just to settle down, before you change the value.

Make sure you have good PIDs too.
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Re: How to setup a fuel MAP without a dyno

Post by Releeuw45 »

Current value is 3Hz with stable readings during road testing. I started out with 12 Hz.
This is the Innovate software setting. The main sample rate in DTA will need to be about the same i guess. I've got no PID's set yet. That what's up next.
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Re: How to setup a fuel MAP without a dyno

Post by FrankCorrado »

Not sure how the WB would work if your PIDs are set to 0. There must be at least some values in there.

LC-1 that is what Rick is using, he might know better about it, but if my memory is good, he is using 13hz as the main sample.

But of course if your PIDs are bad no matter the hz you're screwed. If you try 12hz with PIDs 75-20-5 you will most probably get something interesting out of it. Make sure you check your other cells in the parms as well and have decent values in them.
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Re: How to setup a fuel MAP without a dyno

Post by 86sixsix »

i thought i best read this properly, given it's got my name in...
FrankCorrado wrote:Overrun TPS position, 2 is good.
Overrun RPM turn on, 1500
Overrun lock time, 1.5-2.0sec. That is the time the CL will not adjust after an overrun has started. It gives time for the engine to settle down during an overrun.
TPS Red to lock, I'd say from 10 to 50%. If you reduce TPS by x%, it will assume like an overrun and lock. For me 10% was not enough, the engine and AFRs felt better with 50.
Red Lock time, 1.5-2.0sec. That is how long it will lock, I think it's linked to the TPS Red to Lock.
overrun tps is engine dependent, as is rpm
lock time is timed from when you come *out* of overrun, but you have the rough idea correct
tps red to lock description is correct, but 50?? wtf...
red lock time is timed from when you come *out* of red lock

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Re: How to setup a fuel MAP without a dyno

Post by VR6Turbo »

LOL, better late than never :lol:

I still don't fully understand red to lock. That, like so many other vaguely described functions within DTA land, don't stop the engine from working, so you kind of live with a half baked understanding of it :D
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Re: How to setup a fuel MAP without a dyno

Post by 86sixsix »

say you've got overrun at 2% and 50% in this box like the example above and you're doing 100mph at 5,000rpm at 95% throttle and suddenly back off in gear to 46% throttle because someone's in your way. CL will still continue to function as you've not gone over the 50-threshold and could well create really really rubbish figures for anything including and between those cells.
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FrankCorrado
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Re: How to setup a fuel MAP without a dyno

Post by FrankCorrado »

Interesting, engine behaves rubbish with 10% and smoother with 50%.
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