Auto tune

Give input on tuning as well as any tips and tricks you may have. Also feel free to share base mapping files for various engine types.
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mefmotorsport
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Re: Auto tune

Post by mefmotorsport »

From what I've seen "Autotune" works fine on the S80. As a DTA agent I was at DTA last week having a training session on mapping with my new BMW S50B30 engined rally car on their chassis dyno. Allan let the closed loop take care of the fuelling whilst we concentrated on the ignition advance. At the end he removed the closed loop and checked over the fuelling map, then I drove the car away, totally tractable and very powerful, totally transformed, perfect!

Whats the problem?

Martin
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Re: Auto tune

Post by Jon K »

Thats awesome that you were at DTA Martin. Envious.
1992 700RWHP Pump Gas BMW
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ignitionautosport
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Re: Auto tune

Post by ignitionautosport »

mefmotorsport wrote: Whats the problem?
I'd guess guy setting it up.
I have heard that they do it that way when tuning in-house.That setup would be great for dialing in cam timing, as you can run cam advance on the knob and let fuel be done closed loop - that would be badass.

Do you know if there is a preferred wideband O2 setup DTA use, and how long roughly did it take to stabilise fuel in a cell before moving to the next? - If you don't mind my being nosy, just be nice to know what a typical response time is when tuning this way so I'd know if I'm on the right track or not.
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Antral
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Re: Auto tune

Post by Antral »

mefmotorsport wrote:From what I've seen "Autotune" works fine on the S80. As a DTA agent I was at DTA last week having a training session on mapping with my new BMW S50B30 engined rally car on their chassis dyno. Allan let the closed loop take care of the fuelling whilst we concentrated on the ignition advance. At the end he removed the closed loop and checked over the fuelling map, then I drove the car away, totally tractable and very powerful, totally transformed, perfect!

Whats the problem?

Martin
Well Martin I suppose there is the answer to all the doubts on this thread.
DTA isn,t crap after all :o
VR6Turbo
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Re: Auto tune

Post by VR6Turbo »

ignitionautosport wrote:I'd guess guy setting it up.
I have heard that they do it that way when tuning in-house.That setup would be great for dialing in cam timing, as you can run cam advance on the knob and let fuel be done closed loop - that would be badass.

Do you know if there is a preferred wideband O2 setup DTA use, and how long roughly did it take to stabilise fuel in a cell before moving to the next? - If you don't mind my being nosy, just be nice to know what a typical response time is when tuning this way so I'd know if I'm on the right track or not.
Yeah it would be nice to know what Closed Loop settings Allan uses, as a baseline to get started.
Rob Stevens
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Re: Auto tune

Post by Rob Stevens »

Try the settings for the DTA Rover 1800K in the maps directory, this is his own car done on his dyno so must work? famous last words
stevieturbo
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Re: Auto tune

Post by stevieturbo »

mefmotorsport wrote:From what I've seen "Autotune" works fine on the S80. As a DTA agent I was at DTA last week having a training session on mapping with my new BMW S50B30 engined rally car on their chassis dyno. Allan let the closed loop take care of the fuelling whilst we concentrated on the ignition advance. At the end he removed the closed loop and checked over the fuelling map, then I drove the car away, totally tractable and very powerful, totally transformed, perfect!

Whats the problem?

Martin
So what PID settings did he use ? lol

And was this doing more realistic sweeping dyno pulls, or static load cells ?

Obviously it will be much easier for CL to do its job in a static environment where each cell is held for a period of time. All other real scenarios are totally different though.

Although the thread poster is stupid. There is little doubt getting CL to work and work well on DTA on a road/race car in a real world environment IS difficult. And as I already said, having PID adjustment with a range of 0-1000 is just silly.

And not helped by the help file which states they must add up to 100.
PID FACTORS

These three values alter the mathematics of the closed loop control. They should always add up to a total of 100. Only adjust the sample figures if you have problems. If the fuelling oscillates as described above and reducing the sample rate does not stop the oscillation then reduce the PID prop factor by 10 and increase the PID diff factor by 10 and try again. If it still oscillates do it again. If the system still oscillates when the PID prop factor has been reduced to 50 then contact us for further advice.

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Or the manual
PID FACTORS

These three values alter the mathematics of the closed loop control. Only adjust the sample figures if you have problems. If the fuelling oscillates as described above and reducing the sample rate does not stop the oscillation then reduce the PID prop factor. If it still oscillates do it again. If the system still oscillates when the PID prop factor has been reduced to 100 then contact us for further advice.
So it says to use the sample settings. What sample ? Then it's saying when the PID Prop is reduced to 100 then contact ?

Some clearer instructions would be helpful.
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ignitionautosport
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Re: Auto tune

Post by ignitionautosport »

I'm curious what O2 hardware they use too, every controller must be different? My LC1 output was all over the place - however it died recently and have replaced it with a NGK AFX but have yet to try it out.

And good points stevie.
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VR6Turbo
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Re: Auto tune

Post by VR6Turbo »

Rob Stevens wrote:Try the settings for the DTA Rover 1800K in the maps directory, this is his own car done on his dyno so must work? famous last words
He has a sample rate of 1. Which surely can't be anywhere near fast enough to pull a wildly out of shape fuel curve into line without pinking occurring?

Max/min - 50/40%
Prop - 400
Int - 0
Dif - 0
Innovate LC-1
stevieturbo
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Re: Auto tune

Post by stevieturbo »

One sample per second would not be fast enough for safe and functional CL operation in real time on a road car.

On a dyno where you are holding load cells for an extended period yes it may be fine though.
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