Fuel Map Recalculation Utility

Give input on tuning as well as any tips and tricks you may have. Also feel free to share base mapping files for various engine types.
Releeuw45
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:13 am
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 63
Location: Veldhoven, Netherlands

Fuel Map Recalculation Utility

Post by Releeuw45 »

Hi All,

After doing some fairly successful CL fuel tuning on the track with my Suzuki GSXR 1000 racebike I ended up having a massive rich/lean (?) stumble just above idle I could not get rid off.

This made me think about changing the Fuel Map column and RPM range settings to see if I could split up the problem area over more cells and solve the problem.
If you want to keep the general form of the Fuel Map intact, you need to (re)calculate all the new cell values. This very time consuming when you do this cell by cell. I therefore created an excel file which helps you automate this.

In this file you have to enter your current Fuel Map, standard (as is) Column and Row numbers and the new Column and Row numbers you want to use. The program then calculates the relative change of the original cell values and creates a correction table for the Column and TPS (or map). These correction then get added to the original cell values to create a New Fuel Map.

The file it self is not protected or locked anyway, so keep a backup somewhere in case you mess up the file.

Let me know what you think and if there are suggestions to improve the file

regards,
René
Attachments
Fuel Map Recalc Utility.xls
(170 KiB) Downloaded 505 times
Releeuw45
GSXR 1000 DTA S60 Track addict
VR6Turbo
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:24 am
ECU Model: S80 Pro
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Re: Fuel Map Recalculation Utility

Post by VR6Turbo »

Nice idea! Had a quick look and I think it will be useful for me too as I have the same lean stumble just off idle.

I've had the same problem on 3 different engines and I know of a few others who've seen the problem too, but basically, if I just gently tap the throttle to back the car out of the garage, it leans right off to 18-20AFR. It doesn't matter how much fuel I shove in the cells around there and how much I put in the transients, it always does it.
It's almost like the ECU is not registering the slight change in throttle movement, but because it's a 3" blade, a tiny movement is enough to lean right off.

I need to do some proper logging but I agree, spreading the problem out over more cells is a good idea!
stevieturbo
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Re: Fuel Map Recalculation Utility

Post by stevieturbo »

Weird....where'd my post go :S

Thats one thing Motec is superb for. Manipulate load cells wherever you want, and it automatically rebuilds the map to suit, interpolating between sites.

Only downside with trying to tighten up cells around a problem area on DTA, is the limited amount of load sites.
Running excessively large TB's is always going to be a nightmare though with transients and low rpm running.

As well as throttle enrichment, you could maybe use the MAP compensation tables or TPS compensation tables to assist with adding fuel in problem areas.

If you have closed loop turned on, often it's far too slow to react and can cause lean spots on throttle movements
Releeuw45
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:13 am
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 63
Location: Veldhoven, Netherlands

Re: Fuel Map Recalculation Utility

Post by Releeuw45 »

I have the same problem. Applying the throttle gentle makes the engine go from 1500 to 2500 rpm and then it starts to bang like a large 2 cilinder. Only moving the throttle beyond 15% clears the engine up and then it shoots towards 6000 rpm.
Adding or reducing fuel doesn't seem to matter and my lambda values jump from 0.6 to 1.2. When I drive the bike from standstill it will immediately bog down. I have to rev it up beyond 3000 and slip the clutch to get it moving of the line. On the track it is no issue anymore running the bike between 4000 and 12000 rpm.

Using more cells is the only option to, at least, pinpoint the problem to a restricted combination of cells. How I'm going to solve it is another matter.

Can the low TPS transition levels be part of the problem?
I"m also using map corrections to optimize fueling during small throttle openings on my TPS based map.
Releeuw45
GSXR 1000 DTA S60 Track addict
VR6Turbo
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:24 am
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Re: Fuel Map Recalculation Utility

Post by VR6Turbo »

stevieturbo wrote:Running excessively large TB's is always going to be a nightmare though with transients and low rpm running.
Agreed. Unfortunately it's the engine's standard throttle. I suppose I could make up an adapter plate and experiment with a smaller throttle.
stevieturbo wrote:As well as throttle enrichment, you could maybe use the MAP compensation tables or TPS compensation tables to assist with adding fuel in problem areas.


You mean use the 20x14 pressure comp table to pad out the problem area? Good idea, I hadn't thought of that!
stevieturbo
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Re: Fuel Map Recalculation Utility

Post by stevieturbo »

In your case though wasnt DBW involved ? IMO that opens another can of worms.

Depending on what you have set the load sites too, I dont think you need to go mad with the resolution. You may have to live with some rich sites to make it work, but that's a small price to pay if it does work, especially if they are rarely seen sites.

as I said in my disappearing post, every engine Ive had in my own car in the past few years, different sizes, different heads, cam etc etc. All around 2000rpm and a moderate throttle opening, and the fuel sites needed to be much larger than any around them for no apparent reason. That's just the way it is though. Make them richer for the area 2-2500rpm and all is fine. The numbers are almost double the surrounding cells to get it to work. ( map vs rpm )

If this then causes a rich condition at lower throttle openings either live with it, or use the TPS compensation tables in my case.

And as said, TURN CLOSED LOOP OFF until it is resolved. CL is too slow to react and can cause lean stumbles as it tries to decide what to do. Especially under circumstances like that.
rover200turbo
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Re: Fuel Map Recalculation Utility

Post by rover200turbo »

i had a simlar problem when i swapped to a 70mm throttle body i resolved it by injector timing i changed it to -100deg so the fuel is fully injected and atomised waiting for the valves to open.


i did originally tune it to the richest point for when the injector stopped injecting but this way it feels alot smoother


john
VR6Turbo
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Re: Fuel Map Recalculation Utility

Post by VR6Turbo »

stevieturbo wrote:In your case though wasnt DBW involved ? IMO that opens another can of worms.
Yup. Current 3.2 litre V6 uses a 76mm TB. I can use the 63mm body from the 2.8 litre version of the same engine. We've already done the maps for the two bodies using my pedal, so dead to easy to switch around and experiment.
stevieturbo wrote:Depending on what you have set the load sites too, I dont think you need to go mad with the resolution. You may have to live with some rich sites to make it work, but that's a small price to pay if it does work, especially if they are rarely seen sites.
Resolution isn't really an issue for me. 100kpa is acheived at approx 35% throttle, so I can afford to have several low rpm sites. My previous engine's cable throttle had a ramp in it to help with low rpm manners, but these modern DBW bodies are full bore, so can be very snatchy off the line.....especially with inlet cams advancing 50 degrees by 1700rpm and tuned length intakes!
stevieturbo wrote:as I said in my disappearing post, every engine Ive had in my own car in the past few years, different sizes, different heads, cam etc etc. All around 2000rpm and a moderate throttle opening, and the fuel sites needed to be much larger than any around them for no apparent reason. That's just the way it is though. Make them richer for the area 2-2500rpm and all is fine. The numbers are almost double the surrounding cells to get it to work. ( map vs rpm )

If this then causes a rich condition at lower throttle openings either live with it, or use the TPS compensation tables in my case.
Oddly enough I see the same leanness around 2000rpm too. Could it just be a popular putting your foot down rpm?

Completely agree. There are plenty of areas of my map that aren't ideal but it drives well enough and I'm prepared to accept some sacrifices. It's just that light throttle pulling away thing that gets on my nerves!
Last edited by VR6Turbo on Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
VR6Turbo
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:24 am
ECU Model: S80 Pro
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Re: Fuel Map Recalculation Utility

Post by VR6Turbo »

rover200turbo wrote:i had a simlar problem when i swapped to a 70mm throttle body i resolved it by injector timing i changed it to -100deg so the fuel is fully injected and atomised waiting for the valves to open.


i did originally tune it to the richest point for when the injector stopped injecting but this way it feels alot smoother


john
I must admit, the optimum injection angle is still something I haven't yet found, but good call. Something to add to the list of things to try 8-)
stevieturbo
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Re: Fuel Map Recalculation Utility

Post by stevieturbo »

VR6Turbo wrote:
Oddly enough I see the same leanness around 2000rpm too. Could it just be a popular putting your foot down rpm?

Completely agree. There are plenty of areas of my map that aren't ideal but it drives well enough and I'm prepared to accept some sacrifices. It's just that light throttle pulling away thing that gets on my nerves!
The only time an area of the map isnt ideal...is when it doesnt drive nicely. Appearing too rich is just something that may annoy in your mind.
But if it drives nicely, just live with it.

Mine's done it with the S80 with every LS Ive had in my car. That's covering different engine sizes, cylinder heads, camshafts, intakes, exhausts etc etc...

In fact...it would almost make me think it is an S80 oddity ? I really cant remember back as far as my P8Pro....but was it there then ? I'm beginning to wonder !
Or maybe it's only since I switched to 16 injectors...so 2 are now wired to each output ?

As for 2000rpm... I could drive 1000miles even up to motorway speeds and never even hit 2000rpm lol. So not really a putting my foot down moment.
It's just weird the load sites there need to be so much higher than anywhere else to make it drive properly
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