Help needed on ignition problem

Give input on tuning as well as any tips and tricks you may have. Also feel free to share base mapping files for various engine types.
Releeuw45
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:13 am
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 63
Location: Veldhoven, Netherlands

Help needed on ignition problem

Post by Releeuw45 »

Hi,

Yesterday I was able to test my engine on a rolling road to sort out the problem of rough running at 2500 RPM.

The operator had connected a magnetic pickup on one of the wires of the primary coil side (IGN 1). While running the engine without any load I noticed the following:

1) The rolling road exhaust gas analyzer gave acceptable readings of the fuel/air ratio in the problem area around 2500rpm.
2) When the engine started running rough, the rpm indication of the rolling road dropped to zero and the highlighted cell on the DTA screen jumped from the 5th row (2500rpm) to the first row (?) and back and forth during cutting outs.

Questions;
If the rolling road pickup doesn't sense a ignition output signal (while running OK at higher revs AND at idle), what can the DTA S60 decide to cut ignition? We tried 1000ms up to 3000 ms coil ON setting without any difference in result.
Should I see an ignition output signal even when the coil or spark plug could be faulty? Are there software settings that could initiate this or should I expect an occasional wiring problem.

Thanks for any help on this.
Releeuw45
GSXR 1000 DTA S60 Track addict
VR6Turbo
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:24 am
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Firmware Version: 62

Re: Help needed on ignition problem

Post by VR6Turbo »

Sounds like a crank sensor issue to me. Ground or signal reversed, trigger wheel not perfectly round, air gap too big, not shielded properly etc etc.

Interestingly enough, I had a mate with a standard Golf R32 doing the same thing a few weeks ago, at exactly 2500rpm aswell and with the factory motronic management. Replaced the crank sensor and it was fine.
Releeuw45
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:13 am
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 63
Location: Veldhoven, Netherlands

Re: Help needed on ignition problem

Post by Releeuw45 »

How would you explain the fact that the engine is running OK elsewhere in the rev range and my crank oscilloscope image is perfect?
Releeuw45
GSXR 1000 DTA S60 Track addict
Mr Drew
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:08 am
ECU Model: S80 Pro
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Re: Help needed on ignition problem

Post by Mr Drew »

Have you tried scoping the crank signal with a proper scope whilst the engine is miss firing?
Releeuw45
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:13 am
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 63
Location: Veldhoven, Netherlands

Re: Help needed on ignition problem UPDATE

Post by Releeuw45 »

Hi,

After some 100 Hz logging in one session I noticed that after additional crank error
pulses recorded ( jump of 1 or more) the engine RPM drops and returns to previous rpm.
After a few seconds the first CAM error pulse is logged and the engine stumbled again and after the second CAM pulse missing, the engine dies.

Image

Image

So, question is now why do these sensors fail in only a limited rpm/load window and run perfectly everywhere else? Could cam chain tension (hydraulic tensioner) play a significant role here? To much chain slack in combination with engine resonance? Or am I missing something else here?

Any ideas how to proceed?

Thanks,
René
Releeuw45
GSXR 1000 DTA S60 Track addict
lumley32
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 5:09 pm
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Firmware Version: 61

Re: Help needed on ignition problem

Post by lumley32 »

seams like a crank sensor problem, is this the GSXR? allot of bike crank wheels are rubbish! see if its running out at all or able to move on the crank.

simple things first, on some of the early denso crank sensors they used rubbish wire and the conductors crack where they come out of the sensor body after about 2005 they started using much better quality bits all round but its still worth checking, dose the sensor read in speck with a ohm meter?

can you try a different sensor? check the clearance between the wheel and sensor? have you strobed it to check sensor angle?
stevieturbo
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: Help needed on ignition problem

Post by stevieturbo »

As above, try simple/free things first. Maybe a different air gap, a replacement sensor etc
pro2call
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:33 am
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: Mefmotorsport
Firmware Version: 77
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Help needed on ignition problem

Post by pro2call »

Hi René,

Go to zomer motorsport in holten. they deliver excelent diagnostic's with DTA. i know they sort out this problem in matter of second's.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Jeroen
Releeuw45
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:13 am
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 63
Location: Veldhoven, Netherlands

Re: Help needed on ignition problem

Post by Releeuw45 »

Thanks guys and Jeroen,

This is very helpful. At this point I was also thinking about replacing sensors / wiring etc. This confirms the right approach.

I will also ask the guys from Holten for their opinion.

Rgards,
René
Releeuw45
GSXR 1000 DTA S60 Track addict
pro2call
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:33 am
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: Mefmotorsport
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Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Help needed on ignition problem

Post by pro2call »

when your calling to zomer.. ask for bert or jordy.

jordy tuned my engine last friday. did a good job.

even advised to install launch by elapsed time...
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