Why's my beetle defying physics?

Give input on tuning as well as any tips and tricks you may have. Also feel free to share base mapping files for various engine types.
bazibbo
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Re: Why's my beetle defying physics?

Post by bazibbo »

Suspect my budget approach always drops me in a world of minimal info, but the 12mm 'inlet' filter is a 100 micron one, which I'm imagineing is relatively a hessian sack approach to pre filtering. But I can only dream alloy billet and flow rates on my budget.

I'll double check the inlet temps and what I'm using to gather the info, again 'it came with the inlet' is all I can add at this point.... I suspect its the standard that comes withe the Mexican dub setup... I'll check

I am tempted to ditch the dual compensation maps, like you say, it's early days and I need to sort out the basics before I stare fine tuning.... Feels a bit like an excuse for extra dyno time to me.

At this mo I've had both map only and tips + map though typically on carb then efi... If budget would allow then I could persue all... Low level and town work is sweet on tps + map, better than map only BUT it was better developed than the map only version.

I'll try and get a dyno chart or even a vid to spice things up a bit
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ignitionautosport
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Re: Why's my beetle defying physics?

Post by ignitionautosport »

Roverdose wrote:yet i use tps with map comps all the time without problems.

using 2 maps isnt the way forward. set the map comps to std, set ignition to degrees not %.
run 1 map, tune that one on the rollers.

Drew
The fuel is straight forward, but I'd need to know what the ignition map should be when N/A in order to have the ideal boost compensations I would have thought. I know everyone has a general rule of thumb, but for a particular engine it would be handy, otherwise you might be in the region of detonation on spool up, or sub-optimally retarded. Probably just something I need to get my head around, and probably not explaining myself very well...

Apologies for the derail bazibbo
| '94 GSR Lancer | '96 Toyota Carib 20V | '83 Toyota Starlet | www.ignitionautosport.co.nz |
claggett
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Re: Why's my beetle defying physics?

Post by claggett »

Bazibbo. I know this is a silly question but are you sure you are getting det? The reason I ask is I know a lot of people running turbos on their aircooleds dont put the waste gate through the muffler (mine does) and when the waste gate opens it makes a noise similar to det. And if you have no boost control your waste gate will prob start to open about 4psi. Just a thought.
bazibbo
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Re: Why's my beetle defying physics?

Post by bazibbo »

I'm pretty sure it's detonation, though at this point I'm open to any ideas. I definately don't vent the wastegate through the muffler and to be honest I can't say I've ever heard the wastegate open.

How to test it. Mmmmmmmm


I'm on the rollers on Thursday.
katana
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Re: Why's my beetle defying physics?

Post by katana »

bazibbo wrote: How to test it. Mmmmmmmm
That's easy enough - get a 100ml syringe from local chemist - that'll provide plenty pressure to open a wastegate actuator!
bazibbo
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Re: Why's my beetle defying physics?

Post by bazibbo »

I kinda know it works, but honestly haven't heard much in the way of a flutter. I can adjust reasonably easily between around 4 and 10psi - so can see the results, just not hear them.

The bits that make me think its detonation is that we can dial it out with retard and noise wise - ball bearings in a large can - rather than a flutter

But I'm open to any ideas at all, so thanks you lot.
stevieturbo
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Re: Why's my beetle defying physics?

Post by stevieturbo »

I'm confused here.

Your fuel map settings are all over the place, and your tuner continues tuning. And you are at a dyno, and you say you dont know if the engine is detonating or not ?

Has this dyno operator ever tuned any engines before ? Because reading between the lines here, it would sound like he's the last person I'd let near a car.

Unless I'm reading a lot of this thread wrong ?

There is either detonation or there isnt, it really isnt that difficult to hear.
bazibbo
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Re: Why's my beetle defying physics?

Post by bazibbo »

Not going to the dyno till Thursday Stevie.... just me confusing stuff :oops:

In a nutshell - my motor has always detonated too soon and been short of power, though. The dyno setup, mmmm... late last year was ok BUT there were issues with them having to supply way too much fuel on boost.... and they didn't get the power out of it I was hoping for. ( I think everyone expects more )

I can see now that these figures are blatently wrong... maybe needed, but odd. So i'm on a mission on Thursday, to see whats up... be it the engine at fault or whatever.

I appear to have covered most things.... the generalised settings I'm getting from everywhere for turboed bugs are all pretty matched... fueling on boost +10% @ 110kpa - +100%@200kpa and retard... down to 24deg at 200kpa... I've not run into one person with anything remotely similar.

I've done plenty of things but in a reactive way... fuel system, chargecooler and so on. But there's still something amis.

Now it might be the case that I've solved it all with my fueling alts over Christmas... but I honestly don't think that's the case and either the engine is in a very bad way or something else is totally wrong - I don't think its case of fine tuning.

Still odd stuff happening... I'm reliably informed that I should comfortably have 150 to 160 at the rear wheels and Im 30 or 40 horses short. So Thursdays task with the garage is to try and figure the issue, before getting on the rollers.

Should really be a build thread this!

oooh I'm on one today.

So here's what I need to sort on Thursday ( feel free to add)

1) Bloody timing... does it match, is TDC... TDC

2) Fuel pressure... does it really keep up with load

3) Does my wideband lie! (though I'll turn it off Stevie)

4) Im I leaking from somewhere on boost.

5) Have I got some setting disasterously wrong...
stevieturbo
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Re: Why's my beetle defying physics?

Post by stevieturbo »

I never said turn the wideband off. I said turn closed loop off. Not the same thing.

Not is TDC TDC as such, although obviously whatever TDC reference you have marked up, should reflect TDC. But is commanded timing on the screen the same timing you see at the spark plug. Taking into account wasted spark as per DTA instructions.
Roverdose
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Re: Why's my beetle defying physics?

Post by Roverdose »

what does a compression test give you? is the cam timing correct?

Drew
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