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 Post subject: Re: Beta Software
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
Posts: 1119
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79
You can already use the keys to modify cells, in both versions, although the old software only seems to modify one cell at a time.

In the new software, select a range of cells (1 or more) either with the mouse or using the shift key and arrow keys.
Then use Alt + Arrow to nudge up or down, or Alt + Page Up/Down to nudge up coarsely. These are fixed amounts.

Trying to find a combination that can be used to nudge a % would need a bit of thought.
Ctl + Alt with arrows and page up/down may work, but I'll need to test it.
What about using letters? If you're in a main map, typing a letter is currently just ignored.
E.g. "f" is nudge up a fine amount, "d" is nudge up a coarse amount, "a" is nudge down a fine , "s" is nudge down a coarse value, with j, k, l and ; being the % options.

One of the more frustrating things in the old software is having to stop the engine to modify a block of cells. This won't be a problem in the new version.

I've added a link to v85.05.


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 Post subject: Re: Beta Software
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:53 pm
Posts: 12
ECU Model: No ECU
Hello Alex

I use alot PCLink (link ecu), they do it like this, and it works quite fast/handy:
Q, Page Up
Increment current value (small change)

A, Page Down
Decrement current value (small change)

Shift + Q, Shift + Page Up
Increment current value (large change)

Shift + A, Shift + Page Down
Decrement current value (large change)

Ctrl + Q, Ctrl + Page Up
Increment row (small change) *table only

Ctrl + A, Ctrl + Page Down
Decrement row (small change) *table only

Alt + Q, Alt + Page Up
Increment column (small change) *table only

Alt + A, Alt + Page Down
Decrement column (small change) *table only

+
Adds to current value(s)

-
Subtracts from current value(s)

*
Multiples the current value(s)

/
Divides the current value(s)

%
Adjusts the current value(s) by percentage

0 - 9
Change current value(s) to new value

= or press enter in a cell
Brings up the change value window

And also if you are real time mapping, and you press the space bar, you jump to the active cell and you can edit it.

What is also very handy is, they have a CTRL+arrow function, wich copies your current cel/row/colluml, to the side you want, selected by the arrow u use.

What i also missed in the old software: if you are mapping a car, and you have choosen your rows and colums, but in the middle of the tune u want to change a row or colum axis value, you have to retype or copy the whole row, and the table values don't go with their before assigned rpm's


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 Post subject: Re: Beta Software
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2901
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
Again...keep it simple.

No need to worry about percentages for manual increments. Just do it in say 0.1 steps. Hold the key down for faster increases. Either way it's a quick and easy way to make changes. I very much dislike the notion of having to hold down two buttons to make these changes, although you could maybe implement that for larger increments, similar to above.

Again simple...one cell, many cells and press + the value increases, - it decreases. Or Motec use pgup, pgdown....I kind of like that, because it's usually top right of all laptop keyboards so easy to find.
But using +/- a little more intuitive because it's doing what it says

Likewise offer a live cell trace lock, so you can simply +/- as you drive or load the engine in each cell. Done either on the text view or graph view.

Just tried the graph view there....would be helpful to note the sliders for rotation. They're almost invisible on the screen
When on graph view, I can move about the cells with the mouse...but cant seem to move through the cells using the cursors ? Fine when sitting at a home PC with a mouse...absolutely hateful when sitting in a car.
Should I be able to move through the cells with the cursors ?

Would also be nice that seeing as there is colour now....for any cells I change, these could be a different colour so at a glance I know I've changed them. At least until the map is stored etc ? And maybe a text indicator at the side to indicate how much that cell has been changed by ? %


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 Post subject: Re: Beta Software
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:22 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:53 pm
Posts: 12
ECU Model: No ECU
stevieturbo wrote:
Again...keep it simple.

No need to worry about percentages for manual increments. Just do it in say 0.1 steps. Hold the key down for faster increases. Either way it's a quick and easy way to make changes. I very much dislike the notion of having to hold down two buttons to make these changes, although you could maybe implement that for larger increments, similar to above.

Again simple...one cell, many cells and press + the value increases, - it decreases. Or Motec use pgup, pgdown....I kind of like that, because it's usually top right of all laptop keyboards so easy to find.
But using +/- a little more intuitive because it's doing what it says

Likewise offer a live cell trace lock, so you can simply +/- as you drive or load the engine in each cell. Done either on the text view or graph view.

Just tried the graph view there....would be helpful to note the sliders for rotation. They're almost invisible on the screen
When on graph view, I can move about the cells with the mouse...but cant seem to move through the cells using the cursors ? Fine when sitting at a home PC with a mouse...absolutely hateful when sitting in a car.
Should I be able to move through the cells with the cursors ?

Would also be nice that seeing as there is colour now....for any cells I change, these could be a different colour so at a glance I know I've changed them. At least until the map is stored etc ? And maybe a text indicator at the side to indicate how much that cell has been changed by ? %

+1 for the coulours. Also a function to turn the gradients off the cells on and off with a key, and the use of cell markers is easy to, so you can mark your cell tuned/partly tuned or no marker.
Anyway it’s easy making sugestions, but i think it’s already a challenging job to rewrite the complete software, and to meet everyones needs. Good job tough!


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 Post subject: Re: Beta Software
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
Posts: 1119
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79
What you're looking at now is just the maps, with functionality to change them.

Real Time Mapping will be different. That will have the colours off by default, but I like the idea of a key to turn them on and off. It will probably just be the "c".
The cells will be updated as they are in the old software.

Unlike stevie, I prefer to use two keys. It's much easier to keep each hand on two or three keys, and combine them, rather than having to move around.

In real time mapping, there will be no need for any letters to be pressed, so the entire keyboard becomes available for short cuts.
One of our strengths is the ability to alter fueling and timing at the same time. I want to add to that with keyboard functionality.

@stevie re graphs - you're correct, at the moment they are mouse driven. I didn't think about moving around graphs with a keyboard, that's an oversight on my part.

I think I need to decide how the keyboard functionality is going to work, and then implement it consistently across the maps, real time mapping and the graphs.

Thanks for the feedback, it's appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Beta Software
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:35 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2901
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
IMO, I hate software that forces lots of work with the mouse, including menus. Too many ecu makers seem to do this it seems with little thought to people actually using it in real life, in a car.


It may seem great when sitting at a desk, but when sitting in a car....or in a car when it is moving, this is a huge problem ( as a passenger of course ) IMO always keep as much tuning and navigation functionality as possible available directly from simple and easy keystrokes.
it's faster, more accurate and just better most of the time.

And one of the many reasons I love the Syvecs/Life software. On screen it may not look all pretty...but the ease of navigation and map adjustments etc is utterly superb.


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 Post subject: Re: Beta Software
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
Posts: 1119
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79
Agreed, keyboard support is vital. I'm going to keep improving it, but not at the expense of too many changes to existing functionality. I'm sure I can make it all work though.

Version 85.06 is now released, which includes the shift cut form.
This is the last update until at least January now, I'm actually going to go on holiday this year. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Beta Software
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:53 pm
Posts: 12
ECU Model: No ECU
Alex DTA wrote:
Agreed, keyboard support is vital. I'm going to keep improving it, but not at the expense of too many changes to existing functionality. I'm sure I can make it all work though.

Version 85.06 is now released, which includes the shift cut form.
This is the last update until at least January now, I'm actually going to go on holiday this year. :)

Haha have a nice holiday ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Beta Software
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2901
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
Had another nosey again today.

Still a few cropping issues with text ( I have not changed my PC config at all, as I'm happy with how it is and do not want to change it. Besides....the on screen text is a normal size anyway ? )

So still various text cropped or missing on the menus.

The "Current ecu Map" or Current Map" text in green also seems to be in the wrong place on a few of the menu windows.

Just browsing through..I opened the twin injector table....this doesnt appear to re-size correctly..ie a lot of the table is out of view and stays out of view even when making the window bigger. And again, text in the menu window cropper or overlapping.
Boost base duty also has same behaviour

Using Traction menu as an example...lots of cropping etc here

Attachment:
dtashottcs.jpg
dtashottcs.jpg [ 163.22 KiB | Viewed 1279 times ]


Short video showing some of my other issues, unlisted video. Also just noticing, sensor scaling tables are not numbered down the left side, 1-20 as normal ? Not really an issue as such I guess.

https://youtu.be/ne4v7WYK0wE


Last edited by stevieturbo on Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Beta Software
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2901
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
Just tried manipulating some cells there...interpolating,

Yes there are keystrokes for this...but when you need to hit F5 to alter some groups of cells...maybe add interpolate to the menu when it opens too ? Might be more intuitive to appear there too for when it isnt immediately obvious as an option. Either click for vertically or horizontally.

Or where there is room on screen at the side of the map windows...have a small sidebar with some of the keystroke options rather than needing to look to the dropdown menu which requires the mouse ?


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