Coil burn on stall after Firmware update on S80

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Mark_r33
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:17 am
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 66

Coil burn on stall after Firmware update on S80

Post by Mark_r33 »

Has anybody here ran the V78 software on the S80 with amplified COP's and let the engine stall?

Ours tried to fry every coil yesterday?! Fortunately caught it before the fires started, but all the coils will want replacing once I know it's sorted / what it is.

Going to rewire the supply through a relay, switched by rpm as the wideband is currently, just so it definitely can't happen again.

It is very strange though, as it never did it on the old V63 firmware, and we stalled it loads of times when we first got it going?

In my mind, if the ecu in a stall is now turning off the ignition outputs, in the normal sense, then that is actually a charging signal on my amplified units due to the pull up, is it not? So if it defaults to outputs turned "off" then my coils will be ignited, literally?! I can't think of anything else that would cause every coil on a V6 to charge at once?

I'll do this rewire today, and will get the scope over a coil and try stalling it again, see if it tries to hold it on. I wanted to rewire it anyway, as I did it as per the manual originally, and now fancy having some more sensible sized fuses feeding things individually from that original feed. Especially after experiencing this!

Cheers for any help guys - Mark
stevieturbo
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: Coil burn on stall after Firmware update on S80

Post by stevieturbo »

I had mine up until around V71/73 with no issues.

What sort of timescale are you talking about though ?

I've killed the engine before via CTRL-K, and downloaded datalogs which takes forever so key on the entire time.

If it is an actual problem though, you could do what some recommend and have the 12v feed/relay for the coils triggered from the fuel pump relay.
Alex DTA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79

Re: Coil burn on stall after Firmware update on S80

Post by Alex DTA »

I'm seeing Allan tomorrow so will ask him about this.
Regards
Alex
Alex DTA
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
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Re: Coil burn on stall after Firmware update on S80

Post by Alex DTA »

According to Allan, nothing has changed with any of that code for ages.
However, it's recommended to wire the coil feed off the fuel pump relay for this reason. It also makes it easier to update firmware and download data.
stevieturbo
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Re: Coil burn on stall after Firmware update on S80

Post by stevieturbo »

sparrow wrote:According to Allan, nothing has changed with any of that code for ages.
However, it's recommended to wire the coil feed off the fuel pump relay for this reason. It also makes it easier to update firmware and download data.

Given a few recent threads. First about coils firing on key on, this potential coil heating after a stall and ecu current draw/fuses etc...
And the twin injector thread..

It may be worth taking a look at the wiring diagrams and making a few amendments.

Obviously the drawings show a simplified setup, but a 40A fuse for the ecu and all accessories....I just dont agree with.

It would be nice to suggest to people a smaller fuse say 5A solely for the ecu, and then you can wire injectors, coils, actuators etc from another fuse or relay as required.

Then also suggest wiring the coils as per this discussion triggered of the FP relay output

Then figure out where the secondary injectors start on say a 3/4 cyl car when using an ecu that would have spare inj outputs.
Shedman
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:58 pm
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Firmware Version: 66.02

Re: Coil burn on stall after Firmware update on S80

Post by Shedman »

Thanks very much for this tip - I've just starting to build my S80 loom so will incorporate a fuel pump-triggered relay in the coil/injector circuits. Does this mean however that you will not be able to test these items from the "Display and Test Function" menu?
Mark_r33
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:17 am
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 66

Re: Coil burn on stall after Firmware update on S80

Post by Mark_r33 »

Thanks for asking Sparrow, and thanks for the suggestions Stevie.

I have now wired all of the engine bays electrical gubbins through the relay I was already using to switch my wideband on only once the engine was running. Should have done that when I first wired it up in hindsight, but knowing even less than I do now I simply went with what was shown in the diagram.

I'd have to agree with Stevie on it too matey, it'd be well worth a suggestion of breaking things up through different fuses at least in the diagram, just for the less electrically savvy of us using them. Switched by the FP relay is a good idea, I went for a separate one in this car so you don't get everything turning on during the first prime, or running on afterwards in the case of the coil burner. But not everybody has a spare output to dedicate to this.

I've currently got the Ecu on a 3 amp and the engine bay on a 15, and all works well. That is running 6 COP's, 6 Asnu 1050cc injectors, 2 VVT solenoids and a boost control solenoid (which is yet to be activated, but doesn't draw much). I was going to use a 5 amp for ECU and a 20 for the bay, but thought I'd wait for one to pop first to get an idea of what's required. Nothings gone so far at that.

I plan to get the scope across the outputs and stall it a few times, see what they do now that there is no chance it can burn the coils. I'll keep you posted, but from what Allan says there it sounds like it just had a bit of a funny turn for a moment?

Do you think it is worth re-flashing the firmware, in case there is anything odd there? I verified it again after the auto verify that it does, and both cam back good, but you never know with this computermajigs.

Cheers guys!

Shedman, you will just need to turn on whatever output you are triggering them too, when you test in that function. So fire your fuel pumps and then test whatever you want to test. Be worth having a separate fuse or switch or both for the pumps in your case.
Shedman
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:58 pm
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Firmware Version: 66.02

Re: Coil burn on stall after Firmware update on S80

Post by Shedman »

Mark_r33 wrote:Shedman, you will just need to turn on whatever output you are triggering them too, when you test in that function. So fire your fuel pumps and then test whatever you want to test. Be worth having a separate fuse or switch or both for the pumps in your case.
Thanks Mark - I wondered if that was the way to do it.
stevieturbo
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: Coil burn on stall after Firmware update on S80

Post by stevieturbo »

Older ecu's used to power the fuel pump during the injector and coil test.

Been ages since I done a test on an S-series, so not sure if it's the same.
Rob Stevens
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
ECU Model: S100 Pro
Distributor: None-Coil On Plug :)

Re: Coil burn on stall after Firmware update on S80

Post by Rob Stevens »

S series allows you to test individual auxiliary outputs at your discretion. Coil and injectors are all tested in batches, its a very useful feature for testing stuff.
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