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 Post subject: S60 as Nitrous Oxide Controller?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
Posts: 861
ECU Model: S100 Pro
Just thinking out loud here, how can I use an S60 to progressively control Nitrous? if at all. I think I have injector capacity so just need to add a nitrous solenoid but I can't think how to operate it it progressively and add fuel (extra fuel from map 2)


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 Post subject: Re: S60 as Nitrous Oxide Controller?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
Posts: 1125
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79
Aux 3 has extra options for nitrous control.
You can also start linking the Aux outs together for extra control.

Here's a basic document I've put together:
http://www.dtafast.co.uk/download_files ... 0Setup.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: S60 as Nitrous Oxide Controller?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:35 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2904
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
I think Jon had asked about this some time ago.

I think Wizards of NOS have some solenoids that can be PWM'd, you'd need to do this via a SSR though.

Although how much of a variance you can actually create by this means I'm not sure. It's all good and well PWM'ing an injector, solenoid etc that operate at low pressure. Doing the same on something with 1000psi across it will require a substantial solenoid and is bound to have less resolution.

If using an Aux out, there are fuel trims attached to these too, so in theory that should cover both aspects. PWM output for nitrous flow and fuel and timing adjustment to match. MAP2 wouldnt need to be involved really.


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 Post subject: Re: S60 as Nitrous Oxide Controller?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:14 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
Posts: 861
ECU Model: S100 Pro
Ok thanks both, so it looks like I can only make the Nitrous come on gently with either rpm or throttle, but not both, in Alex's example the Nos comes on abruptly at 50% throttle.
And thanks for the link Alex, didn't realise you had started doing help sheets like that. A further enhancement might be to add a little wiring diagram for that particular function?


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 Post subject: Re: S60 as Nitrous Oxide Controller?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2904
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
It will be up to you how fast or slow you want to ramp in the flow of nitrous from the solenoid.....but as said, that will also heavily depend on the abilities of the solenoid to actually regulate flow.

You could have the main table as TPS, with a secondary turning the gas on above xxxx rpm and then throttle angle will largely be regulating flow. Although not sure how this would then affect fueling and timing adjustments.

That way your pedal would totally be governing power delivery.

Or not sure if it would be viable....but if there is an open loop cam option, maybe that could be used to drive a solenoid, although it would make fuel/timing adjustments more difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: S60 as Nitrous Oxide Controller?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:08 pm
Posts: 264
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 29
My experience with Nitrous is strictly in racing and all manufacturers say nitrous should ONLY be introduced at WOT. Anything less and you risk blowing the carbs / plenum / airbox off the engine with an intake backfire. Personally I wouldn't use a DTA to try and control nitrous solenoids - use a standalone controller with a trigger to the DTA using a fuel compensation table. As unlike wet nitrous installs where fuel and liquid nitrous are metered with jets the dry systems have little direct comparison between EFI flow and liquid NOS flow. I'd definitely map the fuel compensation to be very very rich as a lean nitrous mix will melt things - plugs, valves or pistons quicker than you can take your foot off the gas.


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 Post subject: Re: S60 as Nitrous Oxide Controller?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
Posts: 1125
ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
Firmware Version: 79
Rob Stevens wrote:
so it looks like I can only make the Nitrous come on gently with either rpm or throttle, but not both, in Alex's example the Nos comes on abruptly at 50% throttle.

In the example, the NOS will only work at above 50% throttle, and the duty cycle is then related to the RPM.
Those are completely random values, so would require adjusting. if anyone has a real world example, please send it over, or suggest some realistic values.

Rob Stevens wrote:
And thanks for the link Alex, didn't realise you had started doing help sheets like that. A further enhancement might be to add a little wiring diagram for that particular function?

Good idea, thanks.

As Stevie says, if you're not using the cam output, and have a cam sensor, you can use the cam base PWM map for full 20 x 14 PWM map.

katana wrote:
My experience with Nitrous is strictly in racing and all manufacturers say nitrous should ONLY be introduced at WOT. Anything less and you risk blowing the carbs / plenum / airbox off the engine with an intake backfire. Personally I wouldn't use a DTA to try and control nitrous solenoids - use a standalone controller with a trigger to the DTA using a fuel compensation table. As unlike wet nitrous installs where fuel and liquid nitrous are metered with jets the dry systems have little direct comparison between EFI flow and liquid NOS flow. I'd definitely map the fuel compensation to be very very rich as a lean nitrous mix will melt things - plugs, valves or pistons quicker than you can take your foot off the gas.


Thanks for the input. I'd be interested in knowing what a nitrous controller would do differently.


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 Post subject: Re: S60 as Nitrous Oxide Controller?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2904
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
I guess the thing to do is look at the controllers.

http://www.noswizard.com/nitrous-contro ... -race.html

http://www.noswizard.com/nitrous-contro ... oller.html

IMO most will ramp in nitrous over a time base from initial hit. Just to soften the blow to both engine and drivetrain. Obviously the size of hit will depend how much ramp there needs to be.

And glancing over the controllers above, it seems to allow different quantities per gear, and possibly an rpm and throttle based ramp or at least cut offs.

And back to other things mentioned before, a good and solid safety lean trip would be a sensible precaution too ( in general, but even more so with nitrous )
Likewise fuel pressure monitoring trips too ( relative to intake pressure of course )

But the user would need to ensure any solenoids are capable of being pulsed and use a suitable SSR to handle the current.


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 Post subject: Re: S60 as Nitrous Oxide Controller?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:33 am
Posts: 190
ECU Model: S100 Pro
I doubt anyone has run nitrous progressively with DTA but it should easily be done.

I run a dry shot with aux3 which takes me from 600hp to around 700, the table looks similar to the one Alex posted but my duty stays at 100%, the solenoid is switched via a mechanical relay because the solenoid runs about 10 amps.

Because I use map 2 switch for something else I wired in a steering wheel switch into fuel pressure and use this to turn the system on but this could also be linked into a bottle pressure transducer.

Image

I have contemplated running a SSR and pulsing the solenoid but at the moment I'm able to turn the nitrous on from 3rd gear up so it's fairly manageable because the car is 4wd. It may be something I contemplate if I decide to increase the dosage of nitrous but like most things It would very much depend on your setup if you need a progressive system and how much nitrous you plan on injecting.


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