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 Post subject: Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:43 am
Posts: 12
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Rob Stevens wrote:
Ah I see, so the rules prohibit what exactly regarding cam sensing? I'm thinking mounting a cam sensor (as a crank sensor) only and fool the ecu

Rules prohibit opening The cam cover. The Engines are sealed and we can't open them to service crankshaft, piston, cams, gearbox. We can work on flywheel, clutch and obviously everything out of the block(intake exhaust etc). Infact we bought spare head, cams etc to measure them and study Engine pc CFD simulations to improve intake and exhaust for our high revving use, "dynamic" airbox as well


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 Post subject: Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2957
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
If I'm reading right, you're saying it's a single cylinder engine ?

Cant really see how a cam sensor would offer much here ? And at such high rpm, whether sequential timed injection or not, cant really see that making a difference ?


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 Post subject: Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:43 am
Posts: 12
ECU Model: S60 Pro
stevieturbo wrote:
If I'm reading right, you're saying it's a single cylinder engine ?

Cant really see how a cam sensor would offer much here ? And at such high rpm, whether sequential timed injection or not, cant really see that making a difference ?

Difference at such high rpm and load? definitely nothing it's worth it.
It might help at partial loads and relatively low rpm, it can help in the gimkana(another little phase of the competition) but onestly I think there will be not a noticeable difference and the rider never complained to us for bad cruising throttle response even with barrel and high injector.
I think a phased injection in this competition can be viewed only as "research purposes"


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 Post subject: Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:30 am
Posts: 573
Location: New Zealand
ECU Model: S80 Pro
Some (all?) models of Ducati Panigale use manifold vacuum for phasing apparently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrJve1_M2xs Not sure how practical that is to implement in aftermarket.

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 Post subject: Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
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Location: Norn Iron
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I guess if you had a pressure sensor in each...or a known cylinder intake runner then phase could be determined quite easily during cranking or at first running from the pressure variations

Once it is known, and it has a sensible crank trigger, there isnt really a lot of need to look again for cyl1. Unless you'd seen a huge number of crank trigger errors or something.

I'm sure it could be implemented on an aftermarket ecu if they offered the code to do so. But it's easier to go for a more conventional means, unless the above would be to circumvent some rules etc.


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 Post subject: Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
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Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
No idea if this is purely coincidence...but this very topic came up on the Motec forum.

https://www.motec.com.au/forum/viewtopi ... =47&t=4142

And their scope trace of said engine using MAP via one of the intake runners can clearly be seen. Now a flexible system that lets you use this during cranking in order to sync, and allows you to alter trigger thresholds etc would work. At present not sure if DTA would allow this though.
They must use a rising edge trigger here instead for crank.

Attachment:
Triumph 675R Cranking PI 22.2.13 scope pic.jpg
Triumph 675R Cranking PI 22.2.13 scope pic.jpg [ 472.32 KiB | Viewed 485 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:43 am
Posts: 12
ECU Model: S60 Pro
I personally use the map sensor for that purpose on my bike (KTM LC8), I use a Microsquirt. Dta not allows that. I have a high speed scope screenshot on my pc, I Will post it


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 Post subject: Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm
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ECU Model: S40 Pro
Distributor: DTA
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Anything is possible, it's just time and whether or not it's something our customers will use.


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 Post subject: Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 2957
Location: Norn Iron
ECU Model: No ECU
Cant use what isnt there though and it seems it is something others do already use even if it wouldnt be overly common.

But more flexibility with triggers can be helpful, albeit it does require a more experienced user to set them up.


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 Post subject: Re: S60 on Motostudent bike wins the 2018 world championship
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:43 am
Posts: 12
ECU Model: S60 Pro
that's the fast logging of the MAP (on Y axis) and wheel tooths(on X axis) during cranking. Map sensor fitted on the rear cylinder intake


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