DTA possibly Dead?

This section is dedicated to discussion of DTA engine control units such as the DTA E48 EXP, P8 Pro, DTA S40, S60, S80, and S100, as well as all things ECU related.
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katana
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:08 pm
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 29

DTA possibly Dead?

Post by katana »

Finally got round to getting my Zetec install running again on Friday. All that has been done since last run is new TPS and a new 3bar FPR. TPS set for open and close, checked for spark via test, tick and injectors, tick. The map is a modified version from last time as it was fuel heavy. Engine started reluctantly and only on No1 and no2 very odd! No3 was pretty dead and no4 was stone cold dead!
Back out today and connected laptop, connected to ECU, run spark test again - all good. Try injectors - nothing! Swap for another set - nothing! Checked volts at plugs, all at battery - 12.7v. Then tried sparks again - nothing, so thought fuse blown but ECU still alive and fuel pump primes so I'm confused!
Turned off ECU and restarted DTA prog, reconnected ECU to power and it wouldn't connect!
Any thoughts before I post it off to DTA to check it out. I have my suspicions but who knows!
katana
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:08 pm
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 29

Re: DTA possibly Dead?

Post by katana »

Update time! Sent the unit back to DTA where they tested it on their 'mule car' and it worked fine! They updated the firmware and I got it back last week. Today I steeled myself to try it out again. I tested the coils and the injectors and both seemed to respond as they should, so I reset / checked the TPS open & closed positions - WOT was a bit low and the software didn't like the low number but accepted it anyway. Its a linkage problem that i'll have to solve to get the throttles to rotate a bit more to achieve 'full' open! I also did a crank oscilloscope with the result below - all plugs in, so no obvious #1 - sorry!
2nd crank - start attempt after dta check.PNG
2nd crank - start attempt after dta check.PNG (3.15 KiB) Viewed 3479 times
3rd crank - start attempt after dta check.PNG
3rd crank - start attempt after dta check.PNG (3.75 KiB) Viewed 3479 times
The first one (I think) is without the cam sensor connected as the first try gave about 50 cam signals!
The second one has cam reconnected but seems to still have to many cam lines! Should be one per cycle. I don't have the current ECU map on this PC but will get it if someone wants to see it ?
Everything seemed to check out but the engine refuses to fire / run - it tries, but zip!
I've reached my limit of fault finding so have contacted a DTA recommended tuner / fiddler who was local to me but unfortunately they've moved location from Guildford down to Devon! Its a long way to transport a car as it obviously doesn't drive, so question is - does anyone know of someone / company more local to me (Camberley, Surrey) that can sort this out for me?
stevieturbo
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: DTA possibly Dead?

Post by stevieturbo »

What cam trigger are you using ? Has it ran reliably before on it ?

Presumably you could just fire it up and forget about the cam for now, wasted spark, crank only ? As at least that is a good signal.

Can you get a proper scope trace of the crank and cam to see what the cam looks like ?

Is the map set to allow it to start without a cam trigger ? ie non sequential injection and not sequential coils.

has anything changed on cam trigger wiring if it had worked before ?
katana
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:08 pm
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 29

Re: DTA possibly Dead?

Post by katana »

Hi Steve,
Cam trigger is stock Zetec - pin orientation may be wrong but as far as I know cam trigger isn't critical ie. leading or trailing edge? And yes it has run with it before - for about 15 minutes but that was 2-3 years ago!
Can't scope it properly as haven't got a scope, nor know how to use one!
I haven't tried wasted spark - I understand the principle but i'd have to read the manual to make the changes DOH!
And nothing has changed on the wiring but that doesn't mean it is 100% either, but I believe it to be ok.
Below is cranking scope from 3 years ago as a comparison.
1st crank - start attempt.PNG
1st crank - start attempt.PNG (3.35 KiB) Viewed 3459 times
There appears to be a difference in the traces particularly the green and pink lines which is very odd.
stevieturbo
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 pm
ECU Model: No ECU
Location: Norn Iron

Re: DTA possibly Dead?

Post by stevieturbo »

Moving to "wasted spark" shouldn't really require anything much other than a few minor settings changes.

If nothing at all has changed, it would seem weird as to why your cam signal has went AWOL.

a trigger edge may not be critical, but depends how you see it, and how wide the tooth is, and what the ecu has been told in terms of that tooth/edge position.

So whilst there is a window for that edge, the numbers still need to be within that window.
katana
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:08 pm
ECU Model: S60 Pro
Firmware Version: 29

Re: DTA possibly Dead?

Post by katana »

Alex has replied via email regarding the above - 1st crank trace - apparently the crank trigger was wired backwards - Ooopps! So this trace must have been before I redid the loom as part of the whole car rewire! And I never scoped the engine when it did run! 2nd trace is correctly wired and without cam signal (it was disconnected) and 3rd is again wired correctly but with a very dirty cam signal (it was much, much worse than that hence why 2nd was without). He has also checked the map settings and adjusted the cam noise masking as seemingly I had it ignoring the cam signal completely ? Don't understand that but will try it later. I have sequential disabled until 1250 rpm so it should start in batch / wasted fire mode and then switch.
I've also had the throttle linkage apart to improve the opening angles - at least WOT will be WOT now, so will have to reset the throttle stops again. Hopefully I might get somewhere over the weekend !
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