setting up full Seq S80 COP / twin plug "I am stuck again"

[c2turbo]

Ok here's my issue I have an early 911 3.0L N/A with a DTA S80 V93 software.The car runs in batch / wasted spark but not great. I believe the crank sensor offset is set properly at 72deg (12 teeth off the leading edge of the missing tooth at TDC) I have a single tooth Cam sensor that shows at 43 on the scope. I have used a timing light and in wasted spark the crank sensor offset seems like it should be more around 65deg.

If i turn off twin spark turn on seq and turn on one coil per plug and try and start It just pops and backfires I have pulled all but the #1 plug and ran the scope and it looks correct to me! but I cant mak the engine run in SEQ

can someone take a look at my map and crank scope and tell me if i have something messed up in my settings



Thanks David

[stevieturbo]

So have you set timing correctly with a timing light as per instructions for wasted spark operation ? Just so you can rule out crank position.

Although around 60-70deg sounds reasonable from the scope trace.

When you say it doesn't run great...what does that mean ? Is it starting and running on all cylinders ? That's the most important starting point.

I presume you have a wideband to monitor fuelling when running ? if not, why not ?

Pretty sure for twin spark on, you still need to disable the coil per plug settings. Is this how it is running in twin spark ?

On diagnostic display it will give info as to where it sees the cam trigger. What is it saying when running ?

Been years since I used one, but datalog crank/cam errors and any info you can relating to them too, to see if you see anything there.

If your cam trigger is not reliable at lower/cranking speeds you may need to only enable COP above a certain rpm. Again log errors etc, record the diagnostic screen from crank to startup and see what it is telling you

[c2turbo]

Thanks Steve , I have checked the logs many time throughout my trouble shooting with a total of 3-5 synthetic and about 1 cam error per start cranking or running it shows the cam @ 43. what I dont understand is the car runs rough even under batch/ wasted spark untill it is above 12-1300 rpms
it seems smoother if i add an extra 20deg of timing at idle (28deg total)

I do have a wideband or 2 one PLX on the ECU and one AEM as a REF they are a full point diffrent aem says 13.1 the ECU says 14.2-14.3 at idle but smells really rich and the plugs show rich.

so one thing i cant get my head around is if i set the crank sensor ref to 89deg and run the crank scope it recomends checking 78 deg and if i then change it to 78deg it recomends 64 deg and so on why does this change ? it syncs every time within 1-2 sec and starts.

I have installed S80s in 3 of my cars and this is the first time I have had theses type of issues

As far as twin spark I was going back and forth yesterday so I may have not saved it before I uploaded the map to show you guys



Thanks David

[stevieturbo]

And so I repeat my first question.

Have you set base timing correctly ? Ignore any estimations of where the ecu thinks it may be. Do it properly.

Lock timing at 0 deg and check with a timing light on a known good TDC mark. If using a dial back style light there are caveats for using any reference other than 0deg on a wasted spark setup.

Wasted/twin spark/COP are independent of batch fire and sequential injection.

So far you haven't mentioned trying to use sequential injection either.

[c2turbo]

Ok yes I have set timing with a timing light zeroed the timing map to zero's it is spot on at 72 with the map set to coil per plug and sequential ing above 1500 it will start an run as soon as it trys to switch the engine dies , I have not tried to turn on sequential injection yet.I guess the question i am asking is to calculate and enter the cam position the scope tells me it is 43 in the manual it talks about setting multi unequal tooth but not really single tooth I must have it set incorrect because when it starts in batch and then tries to switch to sequential this is where it shuts down

Thanks David

Sorry if i am not being clear on what i had tried it is difficult to write it all out

[Alex DTA]

The crank scope shows the TDC value to be around 66. The crank scope shows tooth 13, but 12 is less than 13, so it's either going to be 11 or 13.
The scope is just the ECUs best guess; as stevieturbo says, confirm it with a timing light.

The cam pulse is on tooth 43 on the other engine rotation from TDC number 1, putting it 28 teeth before TDC. 28 x 6 = 168, so cam angle should be -168 (minus 168).
Your cam angle is set to 359, so the coils will be firing on the wrong stroke.
Note: As you don't have VVT on that engine, the actual cam angle doesn't need to be 100% accurate, the ECU is just using it to work out the engine phase.

Also ensure that the coils are wired in firing order, not cylinder order.

[c2turbo]

Thanks Alex, that helps alot I will give this a try tonight!


David