crank sensor oscilloscope trace

[learner]

Hello guys,

This is a yamaha R6 engine with a 22 teeth trigger wheel + 2 missing teeth.
I have some problems in firing it up and i find it difficult to understand the crankshaft oscilloscope image. I would appreciate some help if someone could explain to me what to look for. Is this how the trace should be like?

Here is the image:



Underneath the image the crank position is also shown but cannot be seen in the pic.
"Crank position at approx 278 or 98 degrees"
So, in general engine settings i used 98 degrees as the sensor position. Also, 24 as the number of teeth and 2 as the number of missing teeth. Gap tooth factor is set at 2000.

Flywheel mode? What is this? Current value is 0.

Looking forward to learn from you.
Thank you.

learner

[ignitionautosport]

It can often be easier to leave spark plug 1 in the engine and pull the rest out (and disable/dummy load or whatever,) this gives you an indication of where the trigger is in relation to that cyl1 TDC. From there adjust till timing light shows roughly 10-15degrees, which will be enough to fire it up. Note that you can't set timing exact generally as it fires on a certain trigger tooth (set in the same setup screen), not degrees while cranking. I set to 1 usually. Once it's running, adjust the angle till it's bang on.
Setting cam angle for sequential operation can be painful, to start with I set the changeover to 2000rpm so I don't have to worry about it initially.
I can't remember any guideline for setting angle, but eyeballing it chould help - turn the engine over and see how many degrees before/after TDC it is and start with that. You can blip it over 2000rpm and see where the timing jumps to in order to trim the angle, then once it's dialed in you can lower the rpm switch point if you wish to run sequential all the time.

Anyone with a quicker way please feel free to share

[learner]

I just got the engine up and running.

I have no errors for the crank and i turned sequential off for now because there are plenty of errors for the cam. Also, i don't get a number for "cam sig tooth/angle" in the diagnostics display so i believe it's either wired wrong or the sensor needs changing.

[learner]

@ignition autosport - thanks for the help

So you set "firing tooth on startup=1" and then use a timing light to check ignition timing on the gun versus ignition timing in the table and adjust the "sensor position" setting until the match each other?

I will have to sort these first and then move to sequential injection

[ignitionautosport]

It ignores the table on cranking, and fires on the "number of teeth past TDC", which is roughly in that region - enough to start usually anyway. For first start you can fill the ignition table with 10 degrees (or whatever) and then adjust the angle once it starts. You have to get it running to set that angle because of the fact that it only uses a tooth edge when cranking and not a timing angle.

So, I fill the ignition map with 10 degrees (all cells). This means when it fires up the timing shouldn't move at all, and you adjust the angle in the software so that the timing light reads 10 degrees also. It also means it probably won't want to rev due to low timing, which is also fine.

To get it to start I crank (Injectors unplugged) and adjust angle in software till timing mark is roughly between 5-15 degrees, re-enable injectors and fire it up, watching where it jumps to when it bursts into life 5-30degrees it should pretty much run, then crank on the dyno box fuel knob (set to course adjustment range) to get it to a suitable mixture that it will run. Often if it will run (badly even) just check the timing, then you can stop the engine (Kill button on dyno box is a great feature!) adjust to best guess angle based on what ignition timing it was previously, and try again.
Hope this isn't too confusing...

Something I also have made up is a starter button on a lead, which I put to the starter terminal and 12V (usually the main stud on the starter), so I can be in an engine bay checking timing and the starter button lets me fire up the engine, check timing with timing light, and kill engine with dyno box. I never have to go into the car (and the Kill button on the Dyno box means the ECU stays connected to laptop when the engine stops).
Obviously a bike is a touch easier

@ignition autosport - thanks for the help

So you set "firing tooth on startup=1" and then use a timing light to check ignition timing on the gun versus ignition timing in the table and adjust the "sensor position" setting until the match each other?

I will have to sort these first and then move to sequential injection

So basically, yes.

[learner]

It ignores the table on cranking, and fires on the "number of teeth past TDC", which is roughly in that region - enough to start usually anyway. For first start you can fill the ignition table with 10 degrees (or whatever) and then adjust the angle once it starts. You have to get it running to set that angle because of the fact that it only uses a tooth edge when cranking and not a timing angle.
I didn't know that-good to know.
So, I fill the ignition map with 10 degrees (all cells). This means when it fires up the timing shouldn't move at all, and you adjust the angle in the software so that the timing light reads 10 degrees also. It also means it probably won't want to rev due to low timing, which is also fine.
I do have a base map loaded up.
To get it to start I crank (Injectors unplugged) and adjust angle in software till timing mark is roughly between 5-15 degrees, re-enable injectors and fire it up, watching where it jumps to when it bursts into life 5-30degrees it should pretty much run, then crank on the dyno box fuel knob (set to course adjustment range) to get it to a suitable mixture that it will run. Often if it will run (badly even) just check the timing, then you can stop the engine (Kill button on dyno box is a great feature!) adjust to best guess angle based on what ignition timing it was previously, and try again.
Hope this isn't too confusing...
No it's not, i totally understand. Thanks for the advice, i will save this in my mind I also do have a dyno box but haven't used that yet.
Something I also have made up is a starter button on a lead, which I put to the starter terminal and 12V (usually the main stud on the starter), so I can be in an engine bay checking timing and the starter button lets me fire up the engine, check timing with timing light, and kill engine with dyno box. I never have to go into the car (and the Kill button on the Dyno box means the ECU stays connected to laptop when the engine stops).
Obviously a bike is a touch easier
Another piece of good advice. I do have a start button connected but it's worth mentioning that my engine is on the dyno right now. I have the start button next to the laptop so that i can see what's going on while cranking and/or running.

@ignition autosport - thanks for the help

So you set "firing tooth on startup=1" and then use a timing light to check ignition timing on the gun versus ignition timing in the table and adjust the "sensor position" setting until the match each other?

I will have to sort these first and then move to sequential injection

So basically, yes.

I appreciate your help. Thanks for the advice too.
There is no coolant in the engine right now because i removed everything to connect the engine with a couple of heat exchangers for coolant control and my coolant sensor read -9 degrees C. In my "start fuelling map" the temperature starts from 1 degree so i placed my sensor in hot water to get it to like 15 degrees, pushed the start button and voila it started up. In that map though, i know that the values are a percentage increase of the "main fuel map" and that rows are degrees but what are the columns? what is it meant by "turns"? I would have thought that it's rpm but it seems that is a percentage?

[learner]

I just had a look in a video that i made yesterday(yes sometimes i have everything on tape so that i can get back and check something) and my rpm gauge in "real time display" shows ~2700rpm but the on the "start fuelling map" it reads the value from the 1000 turns row. Previous row is 400 turns and next row is 2000 turns. So if this is rpm it should have been reading the cell from the 2000 turns? Unless there is something wrong with the rpm gauge..

[stevieturbo]

turns is simply the number of crankshaft rotations since the engine was started.

[learner]

turns is simply the number of crankshaft rotations since the engine was started.

Thanks stevie.

So, it's not a percentage? and this variable always increases right? From looking at my map, the max value i have for turns is 6000 so as soon as the crankshaft rotations exceed 6000 it will then move onto the main fuel map?

[Rob Stevens]

Its always working on the main fuel map, the starting enrichment is an uplift on the main map settings in % , you might need 200% increase that decays over say 5000 turns. However don't worry about this yet. It is most important that you sort the hot idle settings first before trying to get the cold start working.